I really wish someone would make a 1941 Operation Barbarossa start date

[Riekopo]

I would kill for a 1941 Operation Barbarossa start date with historically accurate Armies, Air Forces, Navies, Divisions and everything. I'm surprised no one has done it yet. I would attempt to do it if I had the time. Maybe some members of the community would like to crowd-develop it together? We would need to gather as many sources as possible to model everything correctly.

 

[Sanny]

I would kill for a 1941 Operation Barbarossa start date with historically accurate Armies, Air Forces, Navies, Divisions and everything. I'm surprised no one has done it yet. I would attempt to do it if I had the time. Maybe some members of the community would like to crowd-develop it together? We would need to gather as many sources as possible to model everything correctly.

I'm pretty sure Podcat said that the team will look into a possible 1941 start date. Just wait maybe the devs will surprise you.

 

[epicmemory]

One potential issue here is division design as it relates to gameplay. Do you design them as historically accurate as possible (right number of battalions/regiments/companies/etc), or do you adapt them to be more ideal for HOI4? How do you reflect an OOB that has, for example, the 501st Heavy Panzer Battalion? Or Germany heavy tank battalions in general? In the context of HOI4 mechanics, I'd guess you'd have an independent division with a single Heavy Tank battalion, a SPAAG battalion, SPART battalion, and 1 Mechanized Infantry battalion...?

Making a late game (1944, for example) scenario or even a 1941 scenario has a very real problem of forcing players to reorganize their historical OOBs before they even unpause (better make sure you have enough army XP for that!), because a lot of what we saw in WW2 in terms of division structure isn't really able to be mirrored in-game in a way that would make any sense, German Heavy Tank battalions being a good example of that.

I'd really like a 1941 Barbarossa start, and a 1944 (sometime after D-Day) start, preferably with an as-close-to-reality OOB as can be modeled in HOI4, but I do worry about how to best handle the issue of some historical division designs being worse than useless when faced with the gameplay mechanics of land combat in HOI4 .

 

[him_15]

I also want a 1941 stat date, but only until the basic of the game (which is the AI obviously) is polished enough before the Dev should spend their resources on other area.

 

[Ethanol]

This may be unpopular but I would advocate for a December 1941 start date (pearl harbor probably). For the following reasons :

- It's the date when the war "locks" itself, form there on there are no new major entries into the war. Additionnally the fact that Japan is already in the war allows to script a way for them to be in the Axis without declaring war on the SU just because Germany asked for it (script just for that start date ofc).
- Enacting Barbarossa is fun, but I suspect that from a German and a Soviet point of view playing the eastern front after Barbarossa has stalled is way more interesting than when it starts (especially for the SU)
- To follow up on the point above, Barbarossa in itself is boring, it's just a push towards Moscow and since everyone knows history nobody is going to make the same mistakes the german did, in addition some of the realities of the terrain and the climate are not modelled harshly enough in game which makes the sovient situation way more difficult than it was really. A June 1941 start date would be fun do try about three times, two times when you win easily by capturing Moscow within three months and one when you realize that given the soviet situation at the time and how the game models certain things playing as the SU is pointless.

- However playing on the Eastern front is fun, we're talking about this gigantic 3000 kilometer long front between two enormous armies each trying to get the upper hand. December 1941 is the moment when the front starts to solidify (I would even push the date to after the battle of Moscow ) and the SU has a chance of survival while Germany must find a new plan to achieve victory.

Remember that a 1941 start date in any case would be for people who like a more railroaded history (or at least to a certain point), if you want to obliterate the SU in six months and invade the US before 44 you don't play later start dates.

In brief : December 1941 is more global and is more interesting for USA, Japan and the UK as a start date while also being more fun to play for Germany and the SU rather than a Barbarossa start date where the outcome is already decided.

Disclaimer : I admit that I have extensively played the Pearl Harbor start date as Germany and the SU in HOI3, in my opinion the eastern front was probably the most fun even with the micro required by HOI3. Germany was a bit of an issue with the attention required in western europe and you had to give a few months to the SU to solidify if you wanted a real challenge but playing as the SU was a real blast, slowly pushing back towards Berlin. The UK and USA where also more interesting since as the UK you were in the middle of the desert war and the USA you had to quickly rearm to face the japanese (no room for anticipation which makes things more fun)

 

[epicmemory]

This may be unpopular but I would advocate for a December 1941 start date (pearl harbor probably). For the following reasons :

- It's the date when the war "locks" itself, form there on there are no new major entries into the war. Additionnally the fact that Japan is already in the war allows to script a way for them to be in the Axis without declaring war on the SU just because Germany asked for it (script just for that start date ofc).
- Enacting Barbarossa is fun, but I suspect that from a German and a Soviet point of view playing the eastern front after Barbarossa has stalled is way more interesting than when it starts (especially for the SU)
- To follow up on the point above, Barbarossa in itself is boring, it's just a push towards Moscow and since everyone knows history nobody is going to make the same mistakes the german did, in addition some of the realities of the terrain and the climate are not modelled harshly enough in game which makes the sovient situation way more difficult than it was really. A June 1941 start date would be fun do try about three times, two times when you win easily by capturing Moscow within three months and one when you realize that given the soviet situation at the time and how the game models certain things playing as the SU is pointless.

- However playing on the Eastern front is fun, we're talking about this gigantic 3000 kilometer long front between two enormous armies each trying to get the upper hand. December 1941 is the moment when the front starts to solidify (I would even push the date to after the battle of Moscow ) and the SU has a chance of survival while Germany must find a new plan to achieve victory.

Remember that a 1941 start date in any case would be for people who like a more railroaded history (or at least to a certain point), if you want to obliterate the SU in six months and invade the US before 44 you don't play later start dates.

In brief : December 1941 is more global and is more interesting for USA, Japan and the UK as a start date while also being more fun to play for Germany and the SU rather than a Barbarossa start date where the outcome is already decided.

Disclaimer : I admit that I have extensively played the Pearl Harbor start date as Germany and the SU in HOI3, in my opinion the eastern front was probably the most fun even with the micro required by HOI3. Germany was a bit of an issue with the attention required in western europe and you had to give a few months to the SU to solidify if you wanted a real challenge but playing as the SU was a real blast, slowly pushing back towards Berlin. The UK and USA where also more interesting since as the UK you were in the middle of the desert war and the USA you had to quickly rearm to face the japanese (no room for anticipation which makes things more fun)

I actually really like this. A Pearl Harbor start date has every major power involved in the war, and at a time where it isn't as clear cut as to who will win.

Starting in 1939 (vastly more so if you start in 1936) as Germany, it's never in doubt that Poland will fall quickly, and it's fairly cut and dry when BENELUX and FRA fall as well (and DEN/NOR). The game really sort of begins when you attack the USSR, because the USSR is the only continental power that can arrest the advance of a human Germany.

A player-led Barbarossa is almost assuredly going to be a victory, so starting in the depths of December once the German advance has been halted really poses a lot of interesting challenges for a player. Throwing a player straight into a stalled Barbarossa would make for a really fun game.

And, of course, the infamous 1945 start date would be welcome . The desperate defense of the Reich is something every HOI player needs to experience!

 

[mabus81]

I'd prefer a 1933 start date. January 30th '33, to be precise, with the first decision being whether to play with the austrian or have him run over by a bus by the grace of god.

 

[TallTroll]

I'd prefer a 1933 start date

Too open to player abuse though. The player knows a war is inevitable (because they'll start it if no-one else does) whereas IRL just about everyone in the world was hoping / trying very hard to prevent another war. An extra 3 years of buildup would cripple the AI, since players could expand their industry and stockpile various war materials way more efficiently, and the AI would be crushed even harder

 

[J_Master]

I actually really like this. A Pearl Harbor start date has every major power involved in the war, and at a time where it isn't as clear cut as to who will win.

Starting in 1939 (vastly more so if you start in 1936) as Germany, it's never in doubt that Poland will fall quickly, and it's fairly cut and dry when BENELUX and FRA fall as well (and DEN/NOR). The game really sort of begins when you attack the USSR, because the USSR is the only continental power that can arrest the advance of a human Germany.

A player-led Barbarossa is almost assuredly going to be a victory, so starting in the depths of December once the German advance has been halted really poses a lot of interesting challenges for a player. Throwing a player straight into a stalled Barbarossa would make for a really fun game.

And, of course, the infamous 1945 start date would be welcome . The desperate defense of the Reich is something every HOI player needs to experience!

May I recommend to you the Endsieg mod. It has a '43 two '44 and a '45 start date, with a planned '18 startdate

 

[Captured Joe]

One potential issue here is division design as it relates to gameplay. Do you design them as historically accurate as possible (right number of battalions/regiments/companies/etc), or do you adapt them to be more ideal for HOI4? How do you reflect an OOB that has, for example, the 501st Heavy Panzer Battalion? Or Germany heavy tank battalions in general? In the context of HOI4 mechanics, I'd guess you'd have an independent division with a single Heavy Tank battalion, a SPAAG battalion, SPART battalion, and 1 Mechanized Infantry battalion...?

The French start out with a lot of those tank brigades, so why not the Germans too?

 

[davidc929]

The French start out with a lot of those tank brigades, so why not the Germans too?

For a 1941 start it isn't an issue as Germany didn't have heavy tank battalions then.

 

[Captured Joe]

For a 1941 start it isn't an issue as Germany didn't have heavy tank battalions then.

LOL, completely forgot about that. Yeah, no Tigers no problems, right?

 

[amalric de g.]

In the steam workshop is a mod, it´s called Operation Barbarossa. The NFs and OOBs are still missing.

 

[Telenil]

Compared to full conversion mods, re-creating the situation in 1941 probably isn't too difficult. It would be very time-consuming, especially if you want to tweak division composition, but what it takes is research, as opposed to advanced scripting or level design.

What would be MUCH harder is to balance the war, and worse, to keep it balanced every time the AI changes. That's one of the big reasons HoI4 doesn't have more start dates.