I really hope you guys don't ban me for this

[delpiero1234]

You know, I hate capitalism as much as the next guy (well, probably more...), but come on? A private corporation in a market economy trying to MAKE MONEY is somehow shocking to you? Don't buy DLC if you don't like it. And let's not mention the incredible amounts of content added in FREE patches for PDS games when every DLC is released. You wouldn't even be here raving about greed if you didn't think PDS games were good. They are. There's nothing remotely like them. The replay value is so immense compared to most games that in fact the hourly rate is dirt cheap.

I just said in a different thread that I wouldn't mind all those DLCs if Paradox would actually take the time (or dedicate more time) to fix bugs. We rarely get patches that address existing bugs. Sometimes we get a hotfix a few days after a a major patch. That's about it.
Some bugs have been reported months ago and are still in the game. Yet, Paradox keeps developing new DLCs instead of dedicating more time to fix bugs. Nobody would blame Paradox for delaying a DLC a couple of weeks if more bugs would get fixed during those weeks.
It just appears that for Paradox it's more important to make as many DLCs as possible than to fix exiting bugs (some of those bugs have been around for many, many months)

I was serious.

I'm very glad to hear that :happy:

 

[Raph]

I just said in a different thread that I wouldn't mind all those DLCs if Paradox would actually take the time (or dedicate more time) to fix bugs. We rarely get patches that address existing bugs. Sometimes we get a hotfix a few days after a a major patch. That's about it.
Some bugs have been reported months ago and are still in the game. Yet, Paradox keeps developing new DLCs instead of dedicating more time to fix bugs. Nobody would blame Paradox for delaying a DLC a couple of weeks if more bugs would get fixed during those weeks.
It just appears that for Paradox it's more important to make as many DLCs as possible than to fix exiting bugs (some of those bugs have been around for many, many months)

Bugfixes cost money. DLC brings in money. You do the math.

 

[delpiero1234]

Bugfixes cost money. DLC brings in money. You do the math.

So you say it's ok that some bugs have been reported many months ago and still have not been fixed? See, this is where we disagree. I get that bug fixes cost money and that DLCs generate money but in my opinion one needs to find a balance between fixing bugs and making money with new DLCs and right now it's mostly about making new DLCs.

 

[Raph]

So you say it's ok that some bugs have been reported many months ago and still have not been fixed? See, this is where we disagree. I get that bug fixes cost money and that DLCs generate money but in my opinion one needs to find a balance between fixing bugs and making money with new DLCs and right now it's mostly about making new DLCs.

No, what I'm saying is that you can't put DLC up as something opposed to bugfixing, when actually DLC sales are needed to bring in money to make bugfixes.

 

[the cool guy]

No, what I'm saying is that you can't put DLC up as something opposed to bugfixing, when actually DLC sales are needed to bring in money to make bugfixes.

But the DLC sales aren't giving bugfixes hence the issue.

 

[Raph]

But the DLC sales aren't giving bugfixes hence the issue.

I suggest you go re-read virtually every patch-note ever.

 

[delpiero1234]

I suggest you go re-read virtually every patch-note ever.

And I suggest you take a look at the EU IV bug forums and take a look at how many bugs still haven't been fixed. It's especially worth looking at older threads in the bug forums to note that a bunch of bugs have been around for a very long time and you'll also notice that Paradox doesn't even bother to reply to all reports.

 

[^_AC_^]

you'll also notice that Paradox doesn't even bother to reply to all reports.

Just because they don't reply to every report, that doesn't mean that the report goes unnoticed (even if yes, sometimes it IS possible that a report goes unnoticed).

 

[the cool guy]

I suggest you go re-read virtually every patch-note ever.

But every time they fix 5 bugs they add 10 new.

 

[Shams]

But every time they fix 5 bugs they add 10 new.

Dude, that's so not true.

Check out the patch notes for real. We plug holes as much as we can. Do we plug every single one? No, but we sure as hell try - these are pretty complex games.

/shams

 

[lemonsquid]

I think that if Pdox never had dlc in the first place for games like CK2/EU4 we would hear people crying for new content. But now that we have been given the opportunity to acquire the DLC we complain that it could have been in the game to start or that it should be free. I guess it really just goes to show people will complain about everything.

 

[delpiero1234]

I think that if Pdox never had dlc in the first place for games like CK2/EU4 we would hear people crying for new content. But now that we have been given the opportunity to acquire the DLC we complain that it could have been in the game to start or that it should be free. I guess it really just goes to show people will complain about everything.

It's not about Paradox making DLCs. I'm glad that they add new content. The issue is that Paradox rarely releases a patch that fixes bugs. The only time we get bug fixes is when a new DLC gets releases and that's not a customer friendly policy. We have to deal with countless of bugs in EU IV and have been told that many have long been fixed in some mysterious dev version. In my opinion Paradox should release a bug fix patch at least once a month. That's not too much to ask for.

 

[Shams]

It's not about Paradox making DLCs. I'm glad that they add new content. The issue is that Paradox rarely releases a patch that fixes bugs. The only time we get bug fixes is when a new DLC gets releases and that's not a customer friendly policy. We have to deal with countless of bugs in EU IV and have been told that many have long been fixed in some mysterious dev version. In my opinion Paradox should release a bug fix patch at least once a month. That's not too much to ask for.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Patches

Maybe we have different definitions of rarely. We could absolutely patch more - but this is a balanced approach - patches and new content features. I don't think it's too much ask for regular patches - but expecting/demanding or saying we do it "rarely" I think borderlines on entitlement.

The process of patching games is very time consuming and thus costly. Some bugs can take 5 minutes to fix - others 5 days. Additionally each patch carries with it a certain amount of overhead. Writing patch notes, coordinating across the company, planning and doing QA etc etc (the whole magical act of publishing). The more frequent patching the less substantial they will be. By releasing major patches with major DLC reduces some of that overhead and allows us to give you more free stuff and fixes.

Listen - give us a bit of credit - we're not douchebags - we play our games ourselves (and experience bugs first hand) and really try to do the best we can - but there are a lot of limitations - many of which you don't see from the outside. The development teams supporting the games are miniscule.

We always strive to be better - being grateful and supportive of what we do motivates us even more than saying we don't patch stuff enough when our patch rate is among the absolute best in the industry for strategy games of this caliber. And I'm not saying "don't be negative or you won't get anything" - but being more constructive helps me at least in these kind of discussions.

Lastly - regarding bugs QA (having started my career in QA I have a bit of insight); bug triage (prioritization) is a very delicate balancing act. Bug severity x bug occurrence rate x impact on other features = bug priority - it's not an exact science but that's roughly how it works.

There might be a big that's very, very annoying and severe for you - but if the player base as a large doesn't suffer from it it's probably not going to get the highest priority. As a great ancestor of mine once said - the need of the many outweigh the need of the few, or the one.

and again - yes we can do better - we always strive to.

/shams

 

[Darkath]

I'm going to bite. Tell me what games you feel this is true about.

We go to great lengths to make our base games full game experiences with tons of content. Base games that we keep updating and adding stuff to for free - see CK2 and Eu4 (both I see you are an owner of) as an example. Along side this we release tons of DLC - cosmetic and gameplay expanding. The key word being expanding - ie not integral to the core experience. It's entirely optional. Vote with your wallet. You feel you should be getting these DLC's for free

I think your joke is unfair and a cheap one at that.

Do better next time.

/shams

I think this is true about DLC that doesn't give you an icon to display under your avatar :rofl:


[noparse]roudDLCowner:[/noparse]

 

[Centurion1973]

I would also like to remind PI that before release you promised Hotjoin (ability to join running MP game) to be part of TFH exapnsion of HoI3 and last time I checked it didnt happen......

 

[Wagonlitz]

I think this is true about DLC that doesn't give you an icon to display under your avatar :rofl:


[noparse]roudDLCowner:[/noparse]

By the way it would be nice to get icons for the CKII expansions too. Icooonssss

 

[the cool guy]

Dude, that's so not true.

Check out the patch notes for real. We plug holes as much as we can. Do we plug every single one? No, but we sure as hell try - these are pretty complex games.

/shams

I check the patch notes for hours every time. There are just as many things not getting fixed as there is fixed things. Also i dedicate at least eight hours of free time on workdays on EU4. On weekends were closer to fifteen hours. I bought a laptop for over 1000$ just to have EU4 everywhere i go on max settings at high speed 5 speeds. I know that developing games is not easy but when reported issues are not fixed for over half a year that's frustrating. It's also frustrating that very obvious issues don't get fixed. The most recent example is Japan in 1.7 because that would have been appearent if even one tester tried to run a chinese or southeast asian nation for five years or if japan was seen early in a spectator game. Also now that someone mentioned hotjoin i want to remind you that you promised hotjoins for EU4 at launch. They still don't work and never have.

Oh and the patch notes have so many undocumented changes it's crazy.

 

[Raph]

Also i dedicate at least eight hours of free time on workdays on EU4. On weekends were closer to fifteen hours.

Sounds like you're getting your money's worth. Most other games will last 40 hours tops and cost the same or more.

 

[the cool guy]

Sounds like you're getting your money's worth. Most other games will last 40 hours tops and cost the same or more.

And i don't buy most of those games. Besides it does not change the fact that there are frustrating bug issues.

 

[Mamluke]

this thread got interesting quit fast