I really hope you guys don't ban me for this

[Pellaken]

This I can relate to - but that's life no?

Perhaps, but I use video games and the internet to escape from life

On my way to work I pass lots of beautiful cars I would love to own - I don't get bent out of shape or blame the car companies or the people owning these no?

I'm not blaming paradox for showing inactive buttons or advertising the DLC.

The silver lining is the games and DLC are put on deep discounts on a semi-regular basis - so there absolutely ways to get the DLC for a fraction of their cost. This is of course in addition to all the free stuff you get in the game.

This is more off topic - but in general this works for me - I try to focus more on what I have - rather than what I don't have. There will always be tons of stuff I can't get - and the more I think about it the more frustrated I become - the more I focus on the things I do have the more grateful I am for them and thus happier.

/shams

My main problem is the whole *reason* there are inactive buttons is the focus on multiplayer.
I don't want a multiplayer game. Paradox does. Thus we are split on the issue. The DLC policy on it's own is not bad at all, but coupled with the multiplayer focus, it simply makes things worse.

Don't get me wrong, Paradox games are still among my favourite, but they have been surpassed by Skyrim and Mass Effect and Civilization; which consider themselves single player games first and multiplayer games second.

The way Paradox DLC was presented back when there was more of a single player focus is not nearly as "bothersome" as it is now.

edit
actually I've not played much Civ. I generally find myself looking for a good single-player focused strategy game and always coming up empty.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Still, though, I just remembered Semper Fi... As much as I love Paradox from what I've heard that was blatant theft.

Did it remove content?

 

[PanzerCorps]

Did it remove content?

It's not that, more that it was basically a big(but necessary) patch that you have to pay for. Only one professional reviewer on metacritic gave it a green rating, and even they admitted:

"Truth be told, Semper Fi is just a ginormous patch that should have been given out for free to all Hearts of Iron 3 owners. Its improvements and new features are unarguably great, but it is not a good sign when you have to shell out $20 more in order to enjoy the game."

And everything I've read about HoI 3(and I spent literally months reading about it because I was split over whether I should buy it) seems to imply that it is unplayable without this "expansion"

 

[Deathwatch]

The primary reason Paradox is somewhat greedy is that they are effectively monopolizing the market. And yes, they created a great game.

If somebody created a better version of Europe Universalis, Crusader Kings, or Hearts of Iron, maybe they will think twice before considering such strategies.

And lastly, the expansion packs do come as "optional". I spent hundreds of hours playing CK II without Rajas of India. Maybe I won't buy Charlemagne DLC. It doesn't matter much. The game still works great without a DLC. I don't know about Semper Fi, I don't buy that either, just the basic HoI III. And yes, they do "add" some game mechanic, although the impact of those DLC varies greatly.

For example : Muslim Dynasties. A whole heap of playing as Muslims.
Legacy of Rome. Just some addition to Byzantium, and some retinues.

By the way, Hearts of Iron III complete is on sale now for only $5 at this present moment.

 

[Wagonlitz]

The primary reason Paradox is somewhat greedy is that they are effectively monopolizing the market. And yes, they created a great game.

If somebody created a better version of Europe Universalis, Crusader Kings, or Hearts of Iron, maybe they will think twice before considering such strategies.

And lastly, the expansion packs do come as "optional". I spent hundreds of hours playing CK II without Rajas of India. Maybe I won't buy Charlemagne DLC. It doesn't matter much. The game still works great without a DLC. I don't know about Semper Fi, I don't buy that either, just the basic HoI III. And yes, they do "add" some game mechanic, although the impact of those DLC varies greatly.

For example : Muslim Dynasties. A whole heap of playing as Muslims.
Legacy of Rome. Just some addition to Byzantium, and some retinues.

By the way, Hearts of Iron III complete is on sale now for only $5 at this present moment.

Retinues are one of the best things though.

 

[the cool guy]

I'm still mad that Paradox removed content from a released game and added it in DLC.

Also Shams can you justify that a paid DLC was not working for half a year?
Or that the Cross platform multiplayer that EU4 was and is advertised for does not work?

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

I think that if you only buy the base game you get a very good value, especially over time. The problem is that if you buy everything they offer you do not get a good value in the end. There is a transfer of money from those who buy all the stuff on day 1 to those who only buy the base game in a sale. The whole CK2 with all the DLC is not worth like 150 euro for an average gamer. The thing is that they play with your mind - the completionist tendencies in people. Only a small fraction of people would consider buying all the stuff for full price a good deal but they still offer it to those who are willing to get ripped or do not have budget restraints. The rest has to constantly keep an eye on bazillions of small products which prices change and swing very often. Certainly it is not consumer friendly but you can just resist the urge and be basically a black passenger - buy only the base game on sale and get a load of content for free. This policy is very friendly towards these minimalist consumers. Overall consumer friendly is what CD projekt Red does - you can rely on them that even if you are a hardcore fan they are not making advantage of that, at least not to the point of charging you up to 150 or perhaps 200 euro for one game. PI does it.

My opinion on this marketing strategy is that creating constant cognitive dissonance in people may not be wise in the long term. If you have to make decisions as a consumer about every little thing (buy horsepack now, wait for it to get cheaper, buy music pack in the sudden sale or not, buy a bundle, buy a separate expansion etc.) then people can give up after some time. Bombardment with various deals about every small piece of software is good for creating confusion (how many threads "which DLC to buy"?) and inciting impulse purchases but some people may eventually resign on making so many choices. A customer of CD projekt Red does not have to do vast majority of these choices, it is much more comfortable. Most people are ok with paying a single price and be done with it, not cherry-pick loads of content - it is like spending a day bargaining in a flea market.

 

[sermaciej]

I'm sure they make a ton of money with it but the fact remains that Paradox is a greedy company.

Every company is greedy. Making company without will to earn money is pointless.

 

[Shams]

I'm still mad that Paradox removed content from a released game and added it in DLC.

Also Shams can you justify that a paid DLC was not working for half a year?
Or that the Cross platform multiplayer that EU4 was and is advertised for does not work?

paid DLC not working for even a day is very uncool. I'm looking into this.


/shams

 

[Wagonlitz]

paid DLC not working for even a day is very uncool. I'm looking into this.


/shams

If you are looking into it then it most likely is the conflict between American Dreams and Conquest of Paradise he talks about; what those conflicts are I cannot remember though.

 

[Verrucosus]

My opinion on this marketing strategy is that creating constant cognitive dissonance in people may not be wise in the long term. If you have to make decisions as a consumer about every little thing (buy horsepack now, wait for it to get cheaper, buy music pack in the sudden sale or not, buy a bundle, buy a separate expansion etc.) then people can give up after some time. Bombardment with various deals about every small piece of software is good for creating confusion (how many threads "which DLC to buy"?) and inciting impulse purchases but some people may eventually resign on making so many choices. A customer of CD projekt Red does not have to do vast majority of these choices, it is much more comfortable. Most people are ok with paying a single price and be done with it, not cherry-pick loads of content - it is like spending a day bargaining in a flea market.

This quote very much reflects my current approach. I play both Crusader Kings II and Europa Universalis IV without any expansions at all and feel that I'm getting excellent value for money. It's not at all because I'm not tempted by any of the extra features, but I have no interest in the kind of incremental buying that's the rage these days. My quiet hope is that once CK3 and EU5 are out, Paradox will be *greedy* enough to tempt steam-averse dinosaurs like myself with a consolidated version of the current games on a nice DVD with an easy install program. If there were even a consolidated documentation that explained how the base game and the 20 DLCs work together, I would be pleasantly surprised indeed. Until then, I'm happy enough with the base games and can use all the extra time I get from not grabbing a new expansion every other month to revisit older games (within the last two month I had a great time with EU2, Imperialism & the original Shogun).

 

[the cool guy]

If you are looking into it then it most likely is the conflict between American Dreams and Conquest of Paradise he talks about; what those conflicts are I cannot remember though.

Event chains that didn't work because technical changes for new world. Can't remember if it was fixed in 1.7. But even if it was it still wasn't working from the 15/1/2014 to the 16/7/2014. So DLC not working for half a year is pretty accurate.

 

[delpiero1234]

paid DLC not working for even a day is very uncool. I'm looking into this.


/shams

Not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic (Hard to tell over the internet). It's definitely not funny that American Dream DLC is not working properly with Conquest of Paradise.

It's also not funny that cross-platform multiplayer is still not working. The game has been advertised and is still advertised with multiplayer.

 

[raw]

the whole *reason* there are inactive buttons is the focus on multiplayer.

 

[trot1217]

While I will admit I laughed at the picture Pdox's dlc policy is reasonable. You can use all of it in mp even if you don't own the DLC as long as the host owns it. This means if you solely play mp you never have to buy the dlc and can enjoy all of the new content for free. IT also always adds new features and comes with an extensive free patch. Finally compared to creative assembly who are locking completed factions behind a pay wall or EA and Activation who charge 15 dollars for five maps and call that fair. Paradox's dlc policy is fine with me.

 

[Shams]

Not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic (Hard to tell over the internet). It's definitely not funny that American Dream DLC is not working properly with Conquest of Paradise.

It's also not funny that cross-platform multiplayer is still not working. The game has been advertised and is still advertised with multiplayer.

I was serious.

 

[Pellaken]

To be clear, one of the reasons we post threads like these and comment in them with thoughtful and useful comments is because of our support for Paradox.

We expect companies like EA to offer **** steam alternatives, for example, but Paradox? You guys are heroes.

 

[Daedalus1882]

If we're talking about DLC not working then how about Rajas of India?

I bought it when it first came out for full price. It was super buggy and basically wasn't playable due to the revolt risk bug and the temporary revolt titles bug ruining my games. The patch to fix the latter issue wasn't released until about 2 to 3 months after Rajas came out!

What upset me even more was that the DLC went on a significant (66% off) sale before I had even had the chance to play it properly!

What was the point in me buying it for full price on day 1? I would have just waited for a sale if I knew one was coming so soon especially given the state of the game after Rajas came out.

CKII is one of my favourite games. I usually buy DLC on day one to support the game and also because I'm happy to pay extra to play the new content straight away. The disastrous release of Rajas (one major bug that the DLC/patch introduced was still not fixed when the DLC went on sale), along with the fact that it went on a significant sale so soon, will most likely make me reconsider this in the future.

Sorry to be negative but it really just rubbed me up the wrong way. It was like a slap in the face really. I was extremely disappointed that the DLC actually ruined the game and essentially made it unplayable. And then the sale came so quickly. Why would I pay full price for a bugged out DLC that'll go on sale in a few weeks anyway?

 

[greenBene]

I don't get all the rage. I played eu4 like 50 hours without any dlc's and I had a lot of fun. I love the game, want to support PI and want to have these cute new unit packs. So I bought them. I spend like 50-70 euros for everything because sales and stuff. Seems fair, I think.

 

[Raph]

I'm sure they make a ton of money with it but the fact remains that Paradox is a greedy company.

You know, I hate capitalism as much as the next guy (well, probably more...), but come on? A private corporation in a market economy trying to MAKE MONEY is somehow shocking to you? Don't buy DLC if you don't like it. And let's not mention the incredible amounts of content added in FREE patches for PDS games when every DLC is released. You wouldn't even be here raving about greed if you didn't think PDS games were good. They are. There's nothing remotely like them. The replay value is so immense compared to most games that in fact the hourly rate is dirt cheap.