I Really don't like how the Reformation works in 1.8

[Stategem161803]

If a Center of Reformation converts one of your provinces, it gets religious zeal. If you convert it back, it keeps religious zeal. Then if the COR converts it again, it gets ANOTHER religious zeal. This process doesn't seem to end. Obviously I could go humanist and just say "lol reformation," but if I wanna stay Catholic, it shouldn't be this annoying.

 

[Lufrewop]

Yeah i start a game in Europe to see the Reformation myself and here are somethings i found that i though were not supposed to happen...

It all started off going good with COR forming and then them converting all provinces around them, then they would just start converting random provinces!

ROME yes Rome has become the target of this random converting in my game as Ulm and well.... i just cant wait till i can play again to see what happens.

Also in one of the Live steams the devs said that once a Provence is converted, say to protestant, a reformed cant convert it, it seems after religious zeal goes away it can, did not really check but saw it happen.

Anyway here is the Rome being converted Screen, when i saw this i was



Other than that all seems to being going good!

 

[Xara]

it shouldn't be this annoying.

It's supposed to be, if you're not doing anything about it

I like how it functions now, although the provinces being converted need to combine the effect of the reformation + your own missionary. Several times the reformation center will be working on a province I already half-converted, which ends up wasting its time.

3 centers seems a little weak, too, since it can easily end up in england or scandinavia and not really affect many nations

 

[Lufrewop]

It's supposed to be, if you're not doing anything about it

I like how it functions now, although the provinces being converted need to combine the effect of the reformation + your own missionary. Several times the reformation center will be working on a province I already half-converted, which ends up wasting its time.

3 centers seems a little weak, too, since it can easily end up in england or scandinavia and not really affect many nations

Yes good point about the spawning of the COR, in the same game 2 of the protestant COR spawned in Scandinavia, and the other in England, leaving Europe almost untouched by it, while the reformed spawned on me, Ulm, in Scotland, and Switzerland. Now i love random but maybe a limit to 1 in isolated areas? but i like said above... After they convert all Proviences around them, they will go random!

 

[TheDarkMaster]

The point here was to make it so that the reformation has an origin point and spreads out from there rather then just being random provinces that convert all over the place.

 

[blackchoas]

I think there is still an issue of certain nations being more or less hard coded to turn Protestant, in my game England and Bohemia pretty much flipped as soon as the reformation started and got the two other centers, I also see Sweden do this rather commonly

I find it strange that this is still the case and that we couldn't come up with something more dynamic, also no nation seems to be coded to become Reformed which is just inconsistant

But with the way this works you will get the start in a random place but end up with the next 2 in either England, Bohemia or Sweden, I would be rather shocked if it didn't always happen this way without player intervention, While I disliked the old model, I think this one needs some more work

 

[D-A-C]

I think there is still an issue of certain nations being more or less hard coded to turn Protestant, in my game England and Bohemia pretty much flipped as soon as the reformation started and got the two other centers, I also see Sweden do this rather commonly

I find it strange that this is still the case and that we couldn't come up with something more dynamic, also no nation seems to be coded to become Reformed which is just inconsistant

But with the way this works you will get the start in a random place but end up with the next 2 in either England, Bohemia or Sweden, I would be rather shocked if it didn't always happen this way without player intervention, While I disliked the old model, I think this one needs some more work

I like a system of weighted randomness ... i.e. the main protestant centers of England, Sweden, Holland, various German states still turn, but it isn't completely 100%, more 75%, equally traditional Catholic countries like Spain should stay Catholic most of the time, with that 1 game in 10 or so that they do something different.

I think the new system is pretty cool, and am looking forward (when I can afford it) to getting AoW so I can see the full dynamism of the Leagues and Events play out.

 

[blackchoas]

I like a system of weighted randomness ... i.e. the main protestant centers of England, Sweden, Holland, various German states still turn, but it isn't completely 100%, more 75%, equally traditional Catholic countries like Spain should stay Catholic most of the time, with that 1 game in 10 or so that they do something different.

I think the new system is pretty cool, and am looking forward (when I can afford it) to getting AoW so I can see the full dynamism of the Leagues and Events play out.

I don't mind it being weighted but I don't think I have seen a single game in like the last 10 I played where Bohemia, England and Sweden didn't all go Protestant

Also never seen Spain flip, see France and Austria flip like once

I just think its too weighted.

I think the Religious League Wars need some work, I mean it seems strange to me that, France, Austria and Spain were all on the same team when France was Rivaled to both Austria and Spain, also it was kinda wierd that Muscovy was fighting against the Golden Horde as part of the Religious League War and of course the historical Ottoman Invasion of Austria to force religious peace in the empire

 

[Marson]

I like a system of weighted randomness ... i.e. the main protestant centers of England, Sweden, Holland, various German states still turn, but it isn't completely 100%, more 75%, equally traditional Catholic countries like Spain should stay Catholic most of the time, with that 1 game in 10 or so that they do something different.

I think the new system is pretty cool, and am looking forward (when I can afford it) to getting AoW so I can see the full dynamism of the Leagues and Events play out.

Completely agree. The weighted religion is amazing in the way it works mechanically.

The number for the reformation are on the eu4 wiki. http://www.eu4wiki.com/Protestant_events#The_Protestant_Reformation

More on the topic however, I think it should be this 'annoying' as it simulates the internal conflicts experienced between the ruler (you) and the population (provinces etc.). Not only does this provide a somewhat accurate simulation of what occurred in the period but it also allows the game to be simply more interesting as there is more to 'worry' about. I think it is fair that the religious zeal resets btw. Doesn't seem too far fetched to believe that when the population converts there is a level of renewed 'zeal'.

 

[D-A-C]

More on the topic however, I think it should be this 'annoying' as it simulates the internal conflicts experienced between the ruler (you) and the population (provinces etc.). Not only does this provide a somewhat accurate simulation of what occurred in the period but it also allows the game to be simply more interesting as there is more to 'worry' about.

I agree with this, but can understand people's frustration in game, as it's only human to feel that way when your perfect country goes crazy lol. It really should be a colossal 'f*ck-up' in Europe during the whole reformation, and with the new rebel system I think it's alot better as you no longer have to whack-a-mole every couple of years, and get in a vicious downward spiral of rebel spawning chaos.

In my latest game, Bohemia became a reformation centre and made 7 of my Hungarian conquered provinces (I am the Ottoman's) turn Reformed, this in turn led to two rebellions, one religious, and one national (as they had recently been conquered), however once I demolished the rebels, that region was quiet from then on, which is a major improvement from the last version which would have seen rebel stack after rebel stack appear over and over and over lol.

 

[Stategem161803]

It's supposed to be, if you're not doing anything about it

I like how it functions now, although the provinces being converted need to combine the effect of the reformation + your own missionary. Several times the reformation center will be working on a province I already half-converted, which ends up wasting its time.

3 centers seems a little weak, too, since it can easily end up in england or scandinavia and not really affect many nations

I was doing something about it. I killed the 3 closest CORs to me, but (as Denmark) my provinces kept getting flipped by a Swiss COR. I just feel like religious zeal should work both ways. If my conversion power is so strong as to convert a recently flipped province, then it should be harder to flip said province.

The game really really wants Northern Europe to be Protestant/Reformed.

 

[Xara]

I don't mind it being weighted but I don't think I have seen a single game in like the last 10 I played where Bohemia, England and Sweden didn't all go Protestant

Also never seen Spain flip, see France and Austria flip like once

I just think its too weighted.

Iberian and Latin cultures have extra resistance to the conversion.
Czech culture provinces get an event that converts them when their ruler is Catholic, which is why Bohemia almost always converts.
I've seen Austria flip occasionally. I've also seen England and Sweden steadfastly refuse, even when England had a CoRf in my current game.

 

[Ranjid]

What needs to be changed ASAP is that reformed nations can't become emperor at all. It's either protestants or catholics. Unless I'm missing something, that is. Been playing Prussia and helped the protestant league to kick Austria out of office. But I'm still not egligibe to become emperor myself...3PM saxony is. There are only 3 protestant nations in the HRE left. Everything else is catholic or reformed. This is nonsense.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

What needs to be changed ASAP is that reformed nations can't become emperor at all. It's either protestants or catholics. Unless I'm missing something, that is. Been playing Prussia and helped the protestant league to kick Austria out of office. But I'm still not egligibe to become emperor myself...3PM saxony is. There are only 3 protestant nations in the HRE left. Everything else is catholic or reformed. This is nonsense.

Maybe report that as a bug?

 

[Alerias]

I have an on-topic question.

Is Protestantism supposed to always get 3 centers while Reformism only gets one, or did I get weirdly unlucky in my two games so far?

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I have an on-topic question.

Is Protestantism supposed to always get 3 centers while Reformism only gets one, or did I get weirdly unlucky in my two games so far?

The province each reformation starts in plus the two capitals of the first nations to switch to the religion should be centers of reformation. That's three for both.

 

[aitaituo]

What needs to be changed ASAP is that reformed nations can't become emperor at all. It's either protestants or catholics. Unless I'm missing something, that is. Been playing Prussia and helped the protestant league to kick Austria out of office. But I'm still not egligibe to become emperor myself...3PM saxony is. There are only 3 protestant nations in the HRE left. Everything else is catholic or reformed. This is nonsense.

You dun goofed. From the dev diary:

Protestant countries in the Protestant League can declare war on the Emperor with the ‘Religious League’ Casus Belli at any time. This will drag in both Leagues and start a League War. A League War unlocks a new war-goal called ‘Religious Supremacy’. Enforcing this goal costs 50% warscore and can be enforced by either attacker or defender. If the Emperor wins and enforces the war-goal, Catholic is set as the official faith of the Empire, the Religious Leagues are disabled, and from then on all Electors must be Catholic (in addition to the Emperor). If the Protestants win and enforce this war-goal, Protestantism becomes the dominant faith in the Empire, the Emperor must be Protestant, and the Catholics become the opposition who may then attempt to declare war on the Protestant Emperor to reassert their control.

If the war ends with neither side enforcing their war-goal, a Peace of Westphalia event triggers that establishes Religious Peace in the Empire according to the principle of ‘Cuius regio, eius religio’, 'Whose realm, his religion'. This also ends the League Wars and removes the religious restriction on who can be Emperor. League Wars can also end if the opposition league - be it Catholic or Protestant - fails to declare war for too long. If enough time goes by without the opposing faith at least attempting to overthrow the ruling order, the Emperor will win by default and his now dominant religion will be set as official.

If it's not too late, help the Catholics fight the Protestants but make sure there's a white peace.

 

[blackchoas]

What needs to be changed ASAP is that reformed nations can't become emperor at all. It's either protestants or catholics. Unless I'm missing something, that is. Been playing Prussia and helped the protestant league to kick Austria out of office. But I'm still not egligibe to become emperor myself...3PM saxony is. There are only 3 protestant nations in the HRE left. Everything else is catholic or reformed. This is nonsense.

As a reformed member you need the Peace of Westphalia event to fire which establishes religious peace in the empire and allows for any Christian to be emperor

 

[HeilLoki]

I think the Reformation is underpowered. I tried 3 different games with different nations and it is nice to see that "reformed" has a chance to be established in some countries, but I still think it's way underpowered. Lithuania had a center of reformation (reformed) for 40 years, but nothing happend. It seems to be in an equilibirium, because as soon as the center converted a province, Lithuania converted another province back to catholicism. That's the problem with big countries. Minor nations convert instantly, but big countries alsmost always stay catholic. 3 games: 2 catholic Swedens... that's just plain sad.

It seems that there should be either more centers or these centers should be more powerful (faster conversion?). Having centers in England or Scandinavia makes the whole reformation boring. If you got a center of reformation, it should be almost a default to switch to this religion, because fighting against the center should be extremely hard. I saw AI remove centers extremely early in the game. I don't even understand how they got it done.

 

[Deuterium Dawn]

I've got one center in Brandenburg, Bohemia got the second, and the Reformation started in northern Lithuania. Once the last center spawns, it seems like it kinda kills the momentum of the reformation, as the centers really convert too slowly and too narrowly to really spread the reformation, and countries don't seem to convert on their own if they can't get a religious center. The first reformed center has now spawned in southern France, but I don't see that going anywhere.