just want to update this Message xD
there are currently 1,4k players active in the game xD
Hope its getting more :3
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I:R comparative performance with other GSG
- Thread starter IsaacCAT
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there are currently 1,4k players active in the game xD
Hope its getting more :3
Good morning to all, this week we see a big increase for PDX GSG (+6,46%) and a small decrease for other publishers (-0,82%). Overall we are up +1,72%.
I have decided not to plot Endless Space as its spikes only clutter the chart, however it explains some of the decline for other publishers GSG this week together with Warhammer III decrease that offset the Civ VI increase. For PDX the big increase comes from CK III and the Legends of the dead expansion published this week:
The small caps may have the biggest story yet, with I:R increasing its 24h Peak players for the third consecutive week without any update except for the modding community. What would be the minimum player base that will make PDX restart development?
I have decided not to plot Endless Space as its spikes only clutter the chart, however it explains some of the decline for other publishers GSG this week together with Warhammer III decrease that offset the Civ VI increase. For PDX the big increase comes from CK III and the Legends of the dead expansion published this week:
The small caps may have the biggest story yet, with I:R increasing its 24h Peak players for the third consecutive week without any update except for the modding community. What would be the minimum player base that will make PDX restart development?
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Totally speculative thought experiment:
It would likely depend on how much they think they'd be able to sell. I have no idea what PDS actually pays but google says the average game designer in Sweden earns ~$76K/year. Let's say there's a small team of ten, some of which will be in different roles so paid more or less (like QA, art, UX, game director, producer, etc.) and it takes them a year to develop a DLC which I think would be approximately right (if not an underestimate) especially since they're starting the team from scratch. Heirs of Alexander was $10, which was priced before all the post-covid inflation changes, but IR DLC was also priced lower than the average Paradox game because of IR's launch reputation, and this would be resuming DLC for a game that was considered shelved for years which is a risky bet. This extremely rough math suggests to break even you'd need 76K DLC sales, though that's not quite perfect as new players might buy the game or a couple of the existing DLC. And they'd most likely want to do better than break even to ensure funding for the following year of development (plus being a business with opportunity cost of IR vs some other project). I'm also totally ignoring marketing costs, currency conversion, the storefront's cut, and taxes.
So that 1.4K number is far off, right? Well, yes, but peak players is also not easily translatable into potential copies sold. Steam is tracking concurrent peak players and Paradox players are both worldwide and not necessarily daily players. We know the daily peak player count is an undercount of the actual total number of players that play the game. The only time I'm aware of where the actual data has been shared were the Vic 3 numbers released around 1.2 ("Line Goes Up" thread) which showed the total daily number of players on steam was 6x the corresponding daily peak. That multiplier is not a hard and fast rule because it varies from game to game, only counted steam players, and just because someone plays the game doesn't guarantee they'll buy the DLC. Monthly unique players would get you closer (and is likely what PDS uses internally), but that metric is not available to the public. Still, if we assume a 6x multiplier for IR and that every one of those players is dedicated enough to buy the new DLC, we currently make a ninth of that 760K budget, so a ten-person team might be too ambitious, but we've also layered on a ton of assumptions at this point that it's just a wild guess.
Let's take a different approach. Iirc, on release, Victoria 3 had around 35 people on the dev team. I believe on shareholder reports, Victoria 3 is classified as profitable (making money), but not "endless" (not making oodles of money). If IR was pulling Vic 3 numbers I think it'd be a sure bet. But maybe IR doesn't need a giant team, at least at first to save on costs, though both "smaller" studios I was going to use as an example also seem to have roughly size 30 teams (Colossal Order and Triumph Studios). I don't have data on the profitability of AoW 4, though they do seem to still be producing DLC for it, and based on that recent spike, people seem to be buying it, so I think PDX considers it worth funding. Maybe consistent AoW 4 numbers would be okay? But if you were trying to build a year-long business plan, you wouldn't want to see IR simply cross AoW 4's lowest point, you'd want to see consistent enough demand that you think the players will still be there by the time you get your new product out.
So my completely made up guess is minimum triple current numbers over a sustained period for them to even seriously consider it. Of course, it's cheaper to assign a very tiny team of only a couple of people, but smaller team = smaller scope (or longer development time) to get anything done, which I think would make it harder to bring in new sales. The 2.0.4 patch certainly seems to have excited the existing playerbase, but would something equivalent to that size be able to raise enough funding to restart development?
It would likely depend on how much they think they'd be able to sell. I have no idea what PDS actually pays but google says the average game designer in Sweden earns ~$76K/year. Let's say there's a small team of ten, some of which will be in different roles so paid more or less (like QA, art, UX, game director, producer, etc.) and it takes them a year to develop a DLC which I think would be approximately right (if not an underestimate) especially since they're starting the team from scratch. Heirs of Alexander was $10, which was priced before all the post-covid inflation changes, but IR DLC was also priced lower than the average Paradox game because of IR's launch reputation, and this would be resuming DLC for a game that was considered shelved for years which is a risky bet. This extremely rough math suggests to break even you'd need 76K DLC sales, though that's not quite perfect as new players might buy the game or a couple of the existing DLC. And they'd most likely want to do better than break even to ensure funding for the following year of development (plus being a business with opportunity cost of IR vs some other project). I'm also totally ignoring marketing costs, currency conversion, the storefront's cut, and taxes.
So that 1.4K number is far off, right? Well, yes, but peak players is also not easily translatable into potential copies sold. Steam is tracking concurrent peak players and Paradox players are both worldwide and not necessarily daily players. We know the daily peak player count is an undercount of the actual total number of players that play the game. The only time I'm aware of where the actual data has been shared were the Vic 3 numbers released around 1.2 ("Line Goes Up" thread) which showed the total daily number of players on steam was 6x the corresponding daily peak. That multiplier is not a hard and fast rule because it varies from game to game, only counted steam players, and just because someone plays the game doesn't guarantee they'll buy the DLC. Monthly unique players would get you closer (and is likely what PDS uses internally), but that metric is not available to the public. Still, if we assume a 6x multiplier for IR and that every one of those players is dedicated enough to buy the new DLC, we currently make a ninth of that 760K budget, so a ten-person team might be too ambitious, but we've also layered on a ton of assumptions at this point that it's just a wild guess.
Let's take a different approach. Iirc, on release, Victoria 3 had around 35 people on the dev team. I believe on shareholder reports, Victoria 3 is classified as profitable (making money), but not "endless" (not making oodles of money). If IR was pulling Vic 3 numbers I think it'd be a sure bet. But maybe IR doesn't need a giant team, at least at first to save on costs, though both "smaller" studios I was going to use as an example also seem to have roughly size 30 teams (Colossal Order and Triumph Studios). I don't have data on the profitability of AoW 4, though they do seem to still be producing DLC for it, and based on that recent spike, people seem to be buying it, so I think PDX considers it worth funding. Maybe consistent AoW 4 numbers would be okay? But if you were trying to build a year-long business plan, you wouldn't want to see IR simply cross AoW 4's lowest point, you'd want to see consistent enough demand that you think the players will still be there by the time you get your new product out.
So my completely made up guess is minimum triple current numbers over a sustained period for them to even seriously consider it. Of course, it's cheaper to assign a very tiny team of only a couple of people, but smaller team = smaller scope (or longer development time) to get anything done, which I think would make it harder to bring in new sales. The 2.0.4 patch certainly seems to have excited the existing playerbase, but would something equivalent to that size be able to raise enough funding to restart development?
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It’s an interesting one, if they were to make a smaller DLC focus on a couple of mission trees, maybe a new feature or two and sell it alongside a 1.4(1.5) patch.
Would that bring people back in decent numbers? It’s not just the DLC, it might encourage others to buy the base game - if they bundled it together an Imperator Caesar edition or something for a reasonable price alongside.
Would that bring people back in decent numbers? It’s not just the DLC, it might encourage others to buy the base game - if they bundled it together an Imperator Caesar edition or something for a reasonable price alongside.
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Most people know the game is in a good state now. What is holding many people back I think is knowing that the game is shelved. Simply making a very small DLC I think would bring many players back, possibly taking it to a level where major developments can be motivated.
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not only that
half of the negative steam reviews are just because of its abandoment so if the development returns i think this game would have less negative reviews
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In a realistic world, they would assign a 50% dedicated team of two (Dev + Designer) and put them as the direct liaison to the Invictus team.
This would turn Invictus into an officially supported mod (effectively a free DLC in continuous live development), with a proven modding team that would now have access to the games engine.
Do that for 6-12 months and see what that partnership can create and if the numbers pick up enough maybe they can turn the Invictus team into an independent contractor workforce that has PDS funding.
I would wildly guess, based on their passion, that at least some of the Invictus folk wouldn't mind putting professional game developer in their resumé.
This would turn Invictus into an officially supported mod (effectively a free DLC in continuous live development), with a proven modding team that would now have access to the games engine.
Do that for 6-12 months and see what that partnership can create and if the numbers pick up enough maybe they can turn the Invictus team into an independent contractor workforce that has PDS funding.
I would wildly guess, based on their passion, that at least some of the Invictus folk wouldn't mind putting professional game developer in their resumé.
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At least we are not in that odd situation where Vic2 had more players than IR...
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Good afternoon,
A little bit late but I did not want to miss the traditional update. This week is stable for overall GSG players (+0,09%) with PDX increasing +1,95% and other publishers decreasing -0,98%.
CIV VI brings down the player numbers for other publishers while HOI IV and Victoria 3 with their releases last week increase those of PDX albeit the decrease of CK III players from the huge increase after its release two weeks ago:
The small caps remain stable and this is great news for I:R that holds on the increased players from the last three weeks. This weekend is the ides of March and again the youtubers and Invictus with a new incredible update loaded with content will try to bring back I:R:
A little bit late but I did not want to miss the traditional update. This week is stable for overall GSG players (+0,09%) with PDX increasing +1,95% and other publishers decreasing -0,98%.
CIV VI brings down the player numbers for other publishers while HOI IV and Victoria 3 with their releases last week increase those of PDX albeit the decrease of CK III players from the huge increase after its release two weeks ago:
The small caps remain stable and this is great news for I:R that holds on the increased players from the last three weeks. This weekend is the ides of March and again the youtubers and Invictus with a new incredible update loaded with content will try to bring back I:R:
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It is really cool to see this positive movement for this game. It is quite interesting to see Imperator rising on this list every week or so.
And of course, necessary message that this is not any official confirmation or promise, but who knows, this might help us have some kind of "spiritual successor" to it in the future...
And of course, necessary message that this is not any official confirmation or promise, but who knows, this might help us have some kind of "spiritual successor" to it in the future...
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Seems like Johan is bringing some concepts from IR into EU5, it's good to see we are not throwing the baby out with the bath water, design-wise.
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Imperator had to walk so EU5 could run. As you said, it's great to see IR having a wider influence on future PDX designs like EU5.
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Its Friday today that means its weekend now for the most of us.
So that means We are Happy because of the Weekend.
And because i am Happy i just want to update my message above and want to share this screenshot:
that Imperator: Rome has Currently 2.600 players online just over Steam.
And that makes me even more Happier :3
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Fun fact, I only played Imperator once for a couple of hours and I had a blast, I bought every DLC even tho I wasn't going to play it (I didn't have the time to do so back then). I was saddened when the game was left out of the roster of games in "active development", but hey, I might just add another player to that number tomorrow after I have done what I have to do The game is already downloaded, mod is going to be downloaded too, after all the official account of Imperator named them as a must and I was... intrigued by this from a "no longer in development" game.
If I were Paradox I would just send the Invictus modders a message, after all, there is a large number of people playing, yes, but maybe not large enough... but also there are out there a lot of potential buyers thanks to PDX increase in fame the more time it passes, and I bet there is a good amount of extra people who already own the game looking from the grades this gladiatorial duel between the void of oblivion and the hope of a revival (like I am currently, but tomorrow I will enter the field and fight for Rome):
"We would like your mod, Invictus, to be officially part of the game in a new update, and give you the next deal opportunity (that you can reject and keep making Invictus on your own if you want): you can make an official DLC for the game, the scope you want, the Invictus team will get 80% of the total earnings (so, the sales, not a profit) of said DLC, Paradox will take 20% (this numbers I just took them out of the hat, I would even go as far as to give the mod team a 90% cut, haha!) and we will provide to the team a game designer and a programmer to help out. If the sales are good, you will be given the deal again for yet another DLC, but this time with a salary, if it goes well again, then welcome to Paradox Interactive, new Imperator team." (Of course I would like them to get payed the minimum from the very beginning but I'm writing just a fantasy here, I don't know the inner workings/legal/logistical/economical shenanigans a deal like this would take)
I mean, what do PDX have to lose? It is a PR dream come true, game comes back to life (at least for a while), earning new players, new sales, and all thanks to its modder community turned developers, and said community members who made it possible will get a giant cut of the sales as payment for their work and a possible new and even better deal to work for PDX officially. Paradox would be expending the minimum (probably not, again, fantasy, I have no idea of all of the above mentioned) for a big chance in returns and extra "prestige" ala CK. So yeah, let's see what's going to happen next... this whole situation is... intriguing...
The game is already downloaded, mod is going to be downloaded too, after all the official account of Imperator named them as a must and I was... intrigued by this from a "no longer in development" game.If I were Paradox I would just send the Invictus modders a message, after all, there is a large number of people playing, yes, but maybe not large enough... but also there are out there a lot of potential buyers thanks to PDX increase in fame the more time it passes, and I bet there is a good amount of extra people who already own the game looking from the grades this gladiatorial duel between the void of oblivion and the hope of a revival (like I am currently, but tomorrow I will enter the field and fight for Rome):
"We would like your mod, Invictus, to be officially part of the game in a new update, and give you the next deal opportunity (that you can reject and keep making Invictus on your own if you want): you can make an official DLC for the game, the scope you want, the Invictus team will get 80% of the total earnings (so, the sales, not a profit) of said DLC, Paradox will take 20% (this numbers I just took them out of the hat, I would even go as far as to give the mod team a 90% cut, haha!) and we will provide to the team a game designer and a programmer to help out. If the sales are good, you will be given the deal again for yet another DLC, but this time with a salary, if it goes well again, then welcome to Paradox Interactive, new Imperator team." (Of course I would like them to get payed the minimum from the very beginning but I'm writing just a fantasy here, I don't know the inner workings/legal/logistical/economical shenanigans a deal like this would take)
I mean, what do PDX have to lose? It is a PR dream come true, game comes back to life (at least for a while), earning new players, new sales, and all thanks to its modder community turned developers, and said community members who made it possible will get a giant cut of the sales as payment for their work and a possible new and even better deal to work for PDX officially. Paradox would be expending the minimum (probably not, again, fantasy, I have no idea of all of the above mentioned) for a big chance in returns and extra "prestige" ala CK. So yeah, let's see what's going to happen next... this whole situation is... intriguing...
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Salvete!
This week there is a big increase of overall GSG players (+6,83%) with PDX (+5,35%) and other publishers (+7,70%) similar increases.
The big players all increase their numbers except CK III that reduces from its high two weeks ago, although remains well above its long trend line.
Behold I:R! the second weekend during the Ides of March has provided an influx of players on top of the already increase from previous weeks. Isn't this a compounding interest ? One who has been defending the game even before the 2.0 revamping can only think that it is never too late to return to it.
This week there is a big increase of overall GSG players (+6,83%) with PDX (+5,35%) and other publishers (+7,70%) similar increases.
The big players all increase their numbers except CK III that reduces from its high two weeks ago, although remains well above its long trend line.
Behold I:R! the second weekend during the Ides of March has provided an influx of players on top of the already increase from previous weeks. Isn't this a compounding interest ? One who has been defending the game even before the 2.0 revamping can only think that it is never too late to return to it.
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Nice
I hope we will see Imperator in the upper graph soon.- 4
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My main dislikes for I:R is the trade system and the clunky UI for interacting with characters.
The character UI stuff is self-explanatory for any I:R player...
On the other hand, the Trade system fails to simulate how trading empires like Carthage managed to rival great land empires like Rome. Carthage's wealth came from secure shipping lanes. But in I:R, Rome can sink the entire Carthaginian navy and blockade all its ports and there will be barely any impact on Carthage's trade income.
If PDS could just polish the UI interaction with Characters and introduce some sort of shipping lanes / trading nodes, this game would be amazing.
The character UI stuff is self-explanatory for any I:R player...
On the other hand, the Trade system fails to simulate how trading empires like Carthage managed to rival great land empires like Rome. Carthage's wealth came from secure shipping lanes. But in I:R, Rome can sink the entire Carthaginian navy and blockade all its ports and there will be barely any impact on Carthage's trade income.
If PDS could just polish the UI interaction with Characters and introduce some sort of shipping lanes / trading nodes, this game would be amazing.
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Good night all,
This week there are less GSG players (-2,35%) but PDX increases thanks to Millennia release yesterday (+2,77%) while other publishers decrease (-5,32%).
The big guns dip a bit except for EU IV and CIV V. We welcome Millennia to the chart.
The small caps see the return of Age of Wonders 4 to the lower scale and I:R still doubling its 24h peak players trend, although going down from the peak of last week.
Have a nice weekend and enjoy playing your favourite game.
This week there are less GSG players (-2,35%) but PDX increases thanks to Millennia release yesterday (+2,77%) while other publishers decrease (-5,32%).
The big guns dip a bit except for EU IV and CIV V. We welcome Millennia to the chart.
The small caps see the return of Age of Wonders 4 to the lower scale and I:R still doubling its 24h peak players trend, although going down from the peak of last week.
Have a nice weekend and enjoy playing your favourite game.
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Good afternoon,
This week we see an increase of overall players (+2.13%) with similar increases for PDX (+2,25%) and other publishers (+2,06%)
The most popular games all increase their players except for CKIII (although still increasing its long trend) and Millennia that will need something if it wants to stay in this chart next week. On the other hand, EU IV remains very strong, that's the reason I believe Project Caesar will not be named EUV even if it will be its successor except for the name to not cannibalize/antagonize current players:
The small caps see I:R going down after the huge increase of players, hopefully it will regain momentum and will keep increasing players. Although Project Caesar will be a strong competitor for it. Also CK II comes on top of Age of Wonders 4 again.
This week we see an increase of overall players (+2.13%) with similar increases for PDX (+2,25%) and other publishers (+2,06%)
The most popular games all increase their players except for CKIII (although still increasing its long trend) and Millennia that will need something if it wants to stay in this chart next week. On the other hand, EU IV remains very strong, that's the reason I believe Project Caesar will not be named EUV even if it will be its successor except for the name to not cannibalize/antagonize current players:
The small caps see I:R going down after the huge increase of players, hopefully it will regain momentum and will keep increasing players. Although Project Caesar will be a strong competitor for it. Also CK II comes on top of Age of Wonders 4 again.
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