I paid $20 USD just so I could upgrade my fleets

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ChildeR

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I think it was clear from the post. Anything which adds to game play is fair game. Additional functionality isn't.

I can do all that without DLC, I just have to click a few hundred times more.

Yeah, but I mean in practice? The DLC already contains pretty much everything it can. Map must be patch, the new unrest/rebel system being DLC only would have required maintenance of two prallel systems, ditto for new curia. The DLC had to have something compelling to sell and 30YW + vassal/ally mechanics is a bit little for $20.

Much easier in CK2 where they could spend several DLCs making different types of realms playable.
 

Atheen

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Totally agree. Just returned the game after 1.5 patch but This DLC was one huge disappointment for me.

some paid features;
*** It's now possible to set an allied in war to prioritise sieging a specific province - Didn't seem to make any difference for my vassals, btw who are occasionally bugged and stops moving units until you reload the game, really gamebreaking.
*** It's now possible to set the military focus for your subjects to be Aggressive, Supportive or None, which changes what tactics they will use during war - Same as above,
*** It's now possible to use your subjects CB/Wargoals when declaring a war - causes many bugs and glitches in the peace deal screen
*** Added Client States mechanics, where you can now create new custom vassals, decide their name, flag & color, and assign them territory as soon as you reach a certain tech level - jsut added there to make more sales, guess what? most vassals are a client state now. you can sell them most provinces as long as same culture group or just give them in the peace deal
*** It is now possible to transfer control of a province to someone you are allied with in a war - as stated above causes many glitches and bugs in the peace deal screen
*** Garrisons can now sortie from their fortress against a besieging force - never seen AI use it, you can still carpet siege with 1 regiment armies
*** You can now toggle your fleets to let your allies & subjects load armies on them - lol, just lol, even the "attach to this unit" checkbox is still not working properly after so many patches since it was added
Most of the other paid features could have easily been added as free patches long a go.

Just go check some youtubers let's palys if you don't believe me. these features just doesn't work.
AI is dumbed down, I've witnessed many times they completely siege a country and settle for War Reparations when the actual CB is conquest of a province. Both ally and enemy troops controlled by AI are acting like a retard.
 

Sarmatian

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So you think it would be better if they divided game into two by making provinces paid feature?

I don't see what that has to do with fleet upgrades. Are you suggesting that there wasn't enough "pay to get" features, so Paradox was forced to include fleet upgrades into paid category, even though it doesn't belong there?
 

RobRoy3

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It's not a valid counter argument.
Got it. You want that and probably everything for free. I just don't find that a valid argument to begin with, so I'm not particularly concerned that you don't find counter-arguments valid.

I have absolutely no problems with the rest, or with how free goodies/paid goodies were handled previously, but this is really pay to reduce amount of clicking.
Actually, I'd have nothing wrong with pay to reduce clicking, even if that were the situation.

It's not.

You're implying that Paradox consciously released a fleet interface that involved extensive clicking knowing that they'd later release a patch/DLC to reduce such onerous clicking. That is absurd.

Maybe they listened to customer comments requesting such a feature, and included it as a small part of a MASSIVE patch/DLC? Some of us are happy to support the model. Some of us prefer to be free riders.
 

artemis667

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*** It's now possible to use your subjects CB/Wargoals when declaring a war - causes many bugs and glitches in the peace deal screen
*** It is now possible to transfer control of a province to someone you are allied with in a war - as stated above causes many glitches and bugs in the peace deal screen
Just go check some youtubers let's palys if you don't believe me. these features just doesn't work.

Weird... I've played a LOT of Art of War, and I use these features quite constantly. I've never had issues with any of them. Not sure what you or the let's players you mention are doing wrong.

In general... 75% of the improvements with Art of War went in with the 1.8 patch for free. The people who bought the DLC - me included - are funding a chunk of that. I'm OK with that.
 

Sarmatian

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You're implying that Paradox consciously released a fleet interface that involved extensive clicking knowing that they'd later release a patch/DLC to reduce such onerous clicking. That is absurd.

It was never my intention to imply that. If it came off like that, I'm sorry. English is not my first language, so I make mistakes from time to time.
The basic point is - if it's minor change that does absolutely nothing else but reduces the amount of clicking, it should be free.

Instead of addressing my argument, you attacked me, stating that I want everything for free. That doesn't add to the discussion. Should I now brand you as Paradox fanboy? Please address the argument, not the poster.
 

Atheen

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Weird... I've played a LOT of Art of War, and I use these features quite constantly. I've never had issues with any of them. Not sure what you or the let's players you mention are doing wrong.

In general... 75% of the improvements with Art of War went in with the 1.8 patch for free. The people who bought the DLC - me included - are funding a chunk of that. I'm OK with that.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Peace-Deals-and-Diplo-Costs-are-all-messed-up
 

Sarmatian

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You sound really entitled. Why should you get the product of someone else's work for free?

Because that has been the business practice of Paradox so far - every patch there's some free and some paid stuff. So far, I've found how Paradox handled it quite fair and sensible, and I'm quite amazed by their decision this time.

I guess you're free to brand people, as you will. I guess I'm not allowed to disagree with your argument.

You most certainly are. Just stick to disagreeing with my argument, instead of making assumptions about my character.

To clarify: I do not see any compelling reason to make that particular enhancement free. Because you want it is not a compelling reason.

Fair enough.
 

Captain Frye

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Paradox was obviously testing how much the customers are willing to pay. Since we have a lot of "I am throwing my money at the screen" clowns, this strategy pays off. I admit, I bought the DLC too after they partially solved the performance issue, but I was disappointed afterwards, because the HYW mechanics are overrated and maybe worth 5 bucks, otherwise I don't feel like the thing was worth 20 bucks(or 20 euro in my case).
 

RobRoy3

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...stick to disagreeing with my argument, instead of making assumptions about my character.
Don't think I did. Apologies if I implied something offensive.

Paradox was obviously testing how much the customers are willing to pay. Since we have a lot of "I am throwing my money at the screen" clowns, this strategy pays off. I admit, I bought the DLC too after they partially solved the performance issue, but I was disappointed afterwards, because the HYW mechanics are overrated and maybe worth 5 bucks, otherwise I don't feel like the thing was worth 20 bucks(or 20 euro in my case).
Few of the features behind the paywall are ever going to be price-justifiable. You elect to buy the patch/DLC because you feel the release is/was worth the money or you don't. As long as there are enough of the "clowns" around willing to support the model, everyone wins, including the free-riders.

If the model ceases to work for them, financially, maybe they'll return to the traditional expansion model when they want to revamp the map so dramatically. Or maybe they just won't bother.
 

Illianor123

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Captain Frye

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Few of the features behind the paywall are ever going to be price-justifiable.

You are right. It's all about how much people are ready to pay(no irony involved). I guess I am just too old school and I miss the days where you got REAL expansions(by "real" I mean basically a new game for half the prize of the base game).
 

User4035

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The ONLY reason that I was motivated to pick up Art of War yesterday is due to the micromanagement of trying to keep a 500+ ship fleet current that I experienced as Castile/Spain, and wanting to avoid that at all costs going forward. Initially I liked that I was forced to "decommission" the old, and build new. But it's just too big a time sink once you have a large fleet.

Your telling me you don't use the change occupation to a vassal or ally - the vassal feeding mechanic?
Or you don't use your vassal's CB's?

The army template for rebuilding your fleet if it gets wiped is pretty good too. Ever need to build 30+ trade ships? takes forever to click on provinces.


Other than that the rest of the features are a novelty or bugged.
 

petertel123

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I think it was clear from the post. Anything which adds to game play is fair game. Additional functionality isn't.

I can do all that without DLC, I just have to click a few hundred times more.
it's just how their DLC model works, they give away most of the gameplay features for free so everyone can still play multiplayer together. I've bought all the DLC mostly out of good will towards paradox, because, as you said, the DLC is mostly just QOL improvements
 

Bijeli Kamen

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Just some other Features which are really important for gameplay in my opinion, as well as giving some nice flavor
Paid features
It's now possible to declare a "support rebels"-war against a country that you're supporting rebels in
(It's now possible to set an allied in war to prioritise sieging a specific province)
(It's now possible to set the military focus for your subjects to be Aggressive, Supportive or None, which changes what tactics they will use during war )
You can now mothball fleets, which means they will cost less maintainance, but slowly detoriate in the port
You can now designate your vassal into a march They will no longer pay tax to you and you can't annex them, but they will get bonuses in warfare
It's now possible to use your subjects CB/Wargoals when declaring a war !! (one of my favorites)
Added Client States mechanics, where you can now create new custom vassals, decide their name, flag & color, and assign them territory as soon as you reach a certain tech level
It is now possible to transfer control of a province to someone you are allied with in a war !! (best feature EVER!)
Added peace option "Give up claims" that forces the enemy to give up all their claims on you
Added peace option "War Reparations" that forces the enemy to pay a fraction of their income to you each month for 10 years
Added the possibility to upgrade fleets in one click if you can afford it
Added abandon idea group functionality, where you can change your countries setup for the future (not used so far, but I can imagine that it can be useful)
You can now toggle your fleets to let your allies & subjects load armies on them
The Holy Roman Empire now have a mechanics for internal religious wars, including leagues for Catholics and Protestants that fight over the faith of the Empire
50 events related to the Thirty Years War

Honestly, this may not seem as being the biggest changes, but now there is so much more possible to plan wars and their results. I.e. I know that it is really gamey, but as Castille I take in the first war with France only bearn for myself and transfer occupation of non guyenne cores to aragon. But even in the not so gamey way (because of the wedding you can load some of the AE to aragon, and diplomatic formation of spain ==> no dip mp cost, instantly, no dip rep penalty, no automatic 75% Autonomy) you can use this to your advantage. Even by taking AE yourself, you have no OE as you can give many provinces at once to your subject. And even more important, your subject doesnt care about the religion and culture of the province. Surely, they will nerf this feature (even though I hope not). But now I eliminated france nearly in 3 wars with the help of burgundy+austria+aragon(+naples)
 

Chlodio

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Do you even understand how much PI is giving you free already? With CK2's and EU4's you aren't buying DLC for the features, you're paying DLC to support development of the game, paid features are only reward tier.
 

toroltao

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Who actually pays full price for games nowadays? Anything more than 50% of the original price is a ripoff.