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aussie

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I just finished playing my first ever complete campaign (Castille-Spain).

To me EU3 is great because it manages to keep you glued to the screen trying to balance many open ended choices and outcomes. True, I hate the way rebels behave. But the game still provides a great experience.

It is also quite complex, so these last few days I’ve been reading the forums a fair bit, trying to work out different bits and pieces. Among other things I’ve come to the realization that people talk fairly little about minting around here. Since the manual says that minting is dangerous, it seems as though most people consider it taboo. If anything, most people suggest that you should avoid it.

The truth is I minted shamelessly for the whole game, ending at over 200% inflation.

inflation.jpg


Yet, I did fairly well overall. I ended my campaign being the world’s largest empire by a long shot (as per number of provinces), while boasting the largest army and the second largest income. I had 16 COT monopolies, and was ranked #1 in terms of prestige until about 1810 (then Austria surpassed me). About 80% of my provinces were cores, and 95% of my empire was Catholic.

I can't see myself achieving this without minting.

empire.jpg



Minting is a mixed bag, though. The advantages are fairly obvious, and in my case included:

- The possibility of raising and maintaining a big army and navy (and hence the ability to conquer neighbours Granada, Aragon and Portugal almost from the very outset)

- Containing superpowers like France, Great Britain or Austria.

- Having lots of money to spend on missionaries, colonists and buildings.

- Getting a big headstart in the conquest of the New World.​


The negatives?

- Things get more and more expensive over time (in my case all costs doubled from the beginning to the end of the game).

- “Things” includes tech. Which means that I fell hopelessly behind in technological matters. My highest tech group was Government, which stood at 24 in 1820. In other words, I had four National Ideas whereas quite a few countries had like seven or eight.

- By about 1650 I decided that my Land Tech could not compete in Europe, because I’d just get my ass kicked by middle powers such as Brabant or Sweden (let alone France or Austria). Just as well, since war mongering in Europe was never my intention (I wanted a colonial empire from the outset). The truth is, I eventually got into a couple of wars in Europe and fared ok. Still, I didn’t feel comfortable fighting nations with Land Tech 44 when I barely had 21.

- When a meteor was sighted in 1775 my stab went down to +2. Due to the effects of inflation, my expenses were so large that I couldn’t invest in stability. Thus I couldn’t recover the +3 level for the remainder of the game. This meant quite some work keeping rebels at bay.​

From 1650 my Empire stood largely unchallenged. Nobody DOWd me. I think this is because I kept my BB very low from then on (it was 40+ in the 1500s) and only got into wars by honouring alliances with Christian countries (I did attack pagans and Muslims of my own accord, though). Maybe the fact that my army was twice as large as Austria’s (the #2 military power) also played a part. Be as it may, my weaknesses were never really exposed.

Besides my stab was pretty much +3 from 1450 onwards. Perhaps without these developments the panorama would have been grim; or maybe choosing a lesser power than Spain would have put me in a much more difficult situation. Still, the bottomline is that I minted like hell and things worked out ok (at least I did better than Great Britain, who had zero inflation 99% of the time, yet ended up completely occupied by rebels).

So yeah, what do you think? Is minting really that bad?

How much do you mint?
 
Jul 9, 2008
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People usually want to keep up in tech and be able to build things cheap. That is why they avoid minting. The thing about getting ass kicked by second rate powers is what nobody wants when they've got an empire like yours.
 

Landwalker

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I'm currently in an Austrian game, around the mid-1500s -- my current inflation is 0.0, with an annual change of something like minus 0.15. So, needless to say, you're minting way above my average. :p

The advantages? Tech is (relatively) cheap -- I'm leading the world in (off the top of my head) Government, Production, and Land tech, although I've also pretty much abandoned Naval tech. In combination with my technological power, my regiments are (relatively) cheap as well, both to recruit and to maintain -- if I wanted to, I could probably field a much larger army than I currently do (I'm only using about one-third of my force limits) without crippling my economy. I also make something like 800 ducats per year, so it isn't like I'm tightening my belt to get this point.

The disadvantages? Beats me.

Of course, I'm also not playing a "colonial power" game. I'm probably three levels behind the leader in naval tech, but it's of virtually no consequence. All of my possessions are (and probably always will be) in Europe or the Mediterranean, so when I go up against anybody it will usually be someone of at least relatively comparable technology (although at this point I'm dubious as to whether or not that would do them any good anyway) -- as a result, minting heavily and dragging myself down in the tech race would be suicidal.

It's also nice to be able to buy Stability. I'm not exactly judicious when it comes to holding back on declaring war because of stability loss. :p

Cheers.
 

aussie

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I'm currently in an Austrian game, around the mid-1500s -- my current inflation is 0.0, with an annual change of something like minus 0.15. So, needless to say, you're minting way above my average. :p

The advantages? Tech is (relatively) cheap -- I'm leading the world in (off the top of my head) Government, Production, and Land tech, although I've also pretty much abandoned Naval tech. In combination with my technological power, my regiments are (relatively) cheap as well, both to recruit and to maintain -- if I wanted to, I could probably field a much larger army than I currently do (I'm only using about one-third of my force limits) without crippling my economy. I also make something like 800 ducats per year, so it isn't like I'm tightening my belt to get this point.

The disadvantages? Beats me.

Of course, I'm also not playing a "colonial power" game. I'm probably three levels behind the leader in naval tech, but it's of virtually no consequence. All of my possessions are (and probably always will be) in Europe or the Mediterranean, so when I go up against anybody it will usually be someone of at least relatively comparable technology (although at this point I'm dubious as to whether or not that would do them any good anyway) -- as a result, minting heavily and dragging myself down in the tech race would be suicidal.

It's also nice to be able to buy Stability. I'm not exactly judicious when it comes to holding back on declaring war because of stability loss. :p

Cheers.

I see. That makes a lot of sense.

But then again, you're in Europe and plan to stay in Europe. In your case the tech race is extremely important.

Also, depending on how things go you could neglect naval almost completely, which means that you can invest a lot more on the other techs and remain ahead of most of your potential rivals. Right?
 

Landwalker

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Exactly my point -- the countries I go to war with aren't the Incas or some similarly completely-backwards nobodies, they're Hungary and France and their ilk, so I can't afford inflation.

I certainly could completely ignore naval, but I need to at least be in the same general ballpark as the rest of the continent for the sake of coastal military operations. Still, I certainly don't have to compete for world leadership on the maritime front, which is helpful when it comes to maintaining my superiority on the other fronts.

Cheers.
 

DIntent

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I've ... pretty much abandoned Naval tech. ... it's of virtually no consequence. All of my possessions are (and probably always will be) in Europe or the Mediterranean

@Landwalker: I've edited this quote a bit to summarize it. I just think its funny, given your name. :)
 

NikkTheTrick

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How much do you mint?
As little as I can.
So yeah, what do you think? Is minting really that bad?
Yes.

Please do not consider below opinion as an insult. You played the game and from what I understand you enjoyed it, which is the whole point. In fact, you going till the end despite inflation-related problems (rather than just blindly following "avoid inflation" advice chanted over and over again) deserves respect.

With your inflation, you managed to survive through smart and calm foreign policy. You fell way behind in technology. Sure, you may have more raw income and provinces than France, but France is stronger than you. If a war breaks out, your armies will get massacred. Things look rosy now, but if things go wrong, you will find yourself with army you cannot maintain that needs 4-to-1 numerical advantage. You can hold against AI for a while, but a human opponent would wipe the floor with you. The game stopped when you are still holding, but your empire is sick and will not be getting better.

An interesting thing to do now would be transfering your game to Victoria:Revolutions and making Spain an uncivilized nation with no techs (to account for horribly low tech level) and making all your army irregulars. Things will get pretty grim there ;)

But then again, you're in Europe and plan to stay in Europe.

For those not in Europe, 19 century can get really, really nasty :D
 

Taklagarn

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Well, i got as a rule to not mint. Cause infaltion is quite nasty i think. But you were able to build quite an empire with that much inflation. Congrats for that, but think how much you could have dominated in europe with high tech to ( think about the oppurnities!) And what would you have done if france declared war???
 

unmerged(148491)

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I mint every now and then. And am trying not to get over 1% inflation if its possible. Basicaly - when things go really bad, and I have choice of screwing my long term politics with inflation or screwing my long term politics with losing CoT/going bankrupt/letting my enemies feed too much - I allow the 1st option.
Also when I have inflation reduction feats (National Bank, or assesors), I tend to mint a bit, to help maintaining my army (which is also a small one - I rarely go over 1/2 of my force limit.

The way you did it, while certainly fun, was also very dangerous choice. As stated before - if alliance against you was made, and your enemies would start declaring war every time truce expires, soon you would be without your empire... inflation would stay tho.
 

aussie

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Thanks for the tips guys!

With your inflation, you managed to survive through smart and calm foreign policy. You fell way behind in technology. Sure, you may have more raw income and provinces than France, but France is stronger than you. If a war breaks out, your armies will get massacred. Things look rosy now, but if things go wrong, you will find yourself with army you cannot maintain that needs 4-to-1 numerical advantage. You can hold against AI for a while, but a human opponent would wipe the floor with you. The game stopped when you are still holding, but your empire is sick and will not be getting better.

Well, i got as a rule to not mint. Cause infaltion is quite nasty i think. But you were able to build quite an empire with that much inflation. Congrats for that, but think how much you could have dominated in europe with high tech to ( think about the oppurnities!) And what would you have done if france declared war???

Equus Polonus said:
The way you did it, while certainly fun, was also very dangerous choice. As stated before - if alliance against you was made, and your enemies would start declaring war every time truce expires, soon you would be without your empire... inflation would stay tho.

That's precisely the impression I had. Still, I somehow got involved in a war against France (mid 1700s) and snatched four provinces from them, including Bourgogne. I didn't really fear France or GB. Only Austria. They would have kicked the living daylights out of me. Good thing they proposed lots of Royal Marriages and alliances, so that relations were always 150+. I also had the double military access with them, so I was pretty certain they wouldn't attack.

midget_roxx said:
Wow. I've always thought that minting was perhaps one the worst things you could do.

It's not great. Still, you can get a pretty decent game even if you mint a lot. Just stay colonial and concentrate on fighting backward low-tech empires such as the Aztecs, Swahili or Ming.

Equus Polonus said:
I mint every now and then. And am trying not to get over 1% inflation if its possible. Basicaly - when things go really bad, and I have choice of screwing my long term politics with inflation or screwing my long term politics with losing CoT/going bankrupt/letting my enemies feed too much - I allow the 1st option.

You know, that's how it all started...


Another question, how do you make you economy grow fast enough to go warmongering if you do not mint?
 
Last edited:

RuyDiaz76

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So yeah, what do you think? Is minting really that bad?

How much do you mint?

Minting is a tool--neither good nor bad.

I wouldn't mint like you did, though. There are other ways to finance colonial expansion as Spain. (Okay, one other way: robbing gold-rich pagan countries.)

I mint to achieve short-term objectives, then retire the inflation; I aim to end the game with zero inflation. In my present Byzantine game, in the 1650's, I have the most powerful country by far, and it has been achieved through warfare and economic management. Early on I did mint quite a lot, since I needed a navy powerful enough to beat the Turks.

In the end, warfare is king in the game. Once you learn to win with wars, minting will become something you do when needed, not something you do regularly.
 

Peter Ebbesen

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I can't see myself achieving this without minting.
I can. :)

Given the starting power of Castille-Spain, there is nothing whatsoever unusual about your achievements for an experienced player, except for you racking up a very high inflation and crippling your research. As such, I am damn sure that as you gain more experience with the game, you will find that you can consistently achieve more with less.

Don't take that as an argument against minting, though - mass minting can be incredibly fun (and that's what it is all ultimately about and what you seem to have had :)), and the EU forums do need a reminder every few years that minting, though often a suboptimal strategy (and certainly when carried out to this degree), is not something that will cripple a game.* There are and have always been way too many players who let themselves be intimidated into being 0%-inflation huggers because of the advice of players who want to play it safe rather than experiment.


* Unless done large scale in multiplayer by someone without the mathematical skills to determine when minting is a reasonable tradeoff.


Keep up the good work - and marvel, two months from now, at just what you are capable of accomplishing at that time. For you, the game has just begun. :)
 

unmerged(148255)

Second Lieutenant
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Aug 4, 2009
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I mint a little when I need to balance the books and I have National Bank/a Master of Mint. Apart from that, nada. I try to keep inflation at 0. In my first game I hit 75 inflation before noticing it existed, there should really be a prompt or something...
 

unmerged(67484)

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Feb 7, 2007
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I mint a little when I need to balance the books and I have National Bank/a Master of Mint. Apart from that, nada. I try to keep inflation at 0. In my first game I hit 75 inflation before noticing it existed, there should really be a prompt or something...

Hehe, I ended up at 48% inflation (was 70% at one point) in my first game (Norway), and still I didn't achieve 1/3 as much as I'd hoped for.
In my new game, with Travancore, I'm much better off with a 12% inflation atm.
I am guessing it will change to the worse if Timurid Empire decides to pay me a visit though ;)

But there should definitively be a warning of some kind if the inflation is rising to rapidly. Sometimes I forget to change sliders back after getting to stability level 3 and the game, for some reason, decides to put all the points from stability to treasury instead, resulting in .99% inflation each year. :(
 

Landwalker

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Sometimes I forget to change sliders back after getting to stability level 3 and the game, for some reason, decides to put all the points from stability to treasury instead, resulting in .99% inflation each year. :(

I hate that. I set the game to pause whenever I gain a Stability level, so at least now I have a chance to remember to double-check my sliders, but I still sometimes forget for a few months.

Cheers.