I love the map
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It looks really good and crisp. I have a problem with some names in the Hellenistic world though. Especially the tag Phrygia which i believe is the Antigonid empire. And Egypt for the Ptolemies , while we have the Seleucids and Mauryans.
Sounds great, Johan. Can you tell us more about what is that Jomini layer, please ?
theres only really one problem with the map.
it shouldnt be a globe projection because earth is flat
it shouldnt be a globe projection because earth is flat
I'll be zooming in on battles a lot with the new map. Mainly as an excuse to look at the scenery
I'll quote Strabo's Geographica (Book I, Chapter I section 20-21) for you (written about the time of Augustus). I have underlined the most important parts
:As the size of the earth has been demonstrated by other writers, we shall here take for granted and receive as accurate what they have advanced. We shall also assume that the earth is spheroidal, that its surface is likewise spheroidal, and above all, that bodies have a tendency towards its centre, which latter point is clear to the perception of the most average understanding. However we may show summarily that the earth is spheroidal, from the consideration that all things however distant tend to its centre, and that every body is attracted towards its centre of gravity; this is more distinctly proved from observations of the sea and sky, for here the evidence of the senses, and common observation, is alone requisite. The convexity of the sea is a further proof of this to those who have sailed; for they cannot perceive lights at a distance when placed at the same level as their eyes, but if raised on high, they at once become perceptible to vision, though at the same time further removed. So, when the eye is raised, it sees what before was utterly imperceptible. Homer speaks of this when he says,
“ Lifted up on the vast wave he quickly beheld afar.62
”
Sailors, as they approach their destination, behold the shore continually raising itself to their view; and objects which had at first seemed low, begin to elevate themselves. Our gnomons, also, are, among other things, evidence of the revolution of the heavenly bodies; and common sense at once shows us, that if the depth of the earth were infinite,63 such a revolution could not take place.
[...]
Still, we do not expect that they should be such thorough masters of the subject as to know what stars rise and set together for the different quarters of the earth; those which have the same meridian line, the elevation of the poles, the signs which are in the zenith, with all the various phenomena which differ as well in appearance as reality with the variations of the horizon and arctic circle. With some of these matters, unless as philosophical pursuits, they should not burden themselves at all; others they must take for granted without searching into their causes. This must be left to the care of the philosopher; the statesman can have no leisure, or very little, for such pursuits. Those who, through carelessness and ignorance, are not familiar with the globe and the circles traced upon it, some parallel to each other, some at right angles to the former, others, again, in an oblique direction; nor yet with the position of the tropics, equator, and zodiac, (that circle through which the sun travels in his course, and by which we reckon the changes of season and the winds,) such persons we caution against the perusal of our work.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=1:chapter=1“ Lifted up on the vast wave he quickly beheld afar.62
”
Odyssey v. 393.
[...]
Still, we do not expect that they should be such thorough masters of the subject as to know what stars rise and set together for the different quarters of the earth; those which have the same meridian line, the elevation of the poles, the signs which are in the zenith, with all the various phenomena which differ as well in appearance as reality with the variations of the horizon and arctic circle. With some of these matters, unless as philosophical pursuits, they should not burden themselves at all; others they must take for granted without searching into their causes. This must be left to the care of the philosopher; the statesman can have no leisure, or very little, for such pursuits. Those who, through carelessness and ignorance, are not familiar with the globe and the circles traced upon it, some parallel to each other, some at right angles to the former, others, again, in an oblique direction; nor yet with the position of the tropics, equator, and zodiac, (that circle through which the sun travels in his course, and by which we reckon the changes of season and the winds,) such persons we caution against the perusal of our work.
A globe makes sense for the timeline of the game.
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I'll five-hundred and fifty-third this - the map looks gorgeous, I want to get down into it and go for a walk around .
Ya big tease - but would be wonderful if performance improved, performance is always good (but AI also important - if only there was performance-free AI!).
.Ya big tease - but would be wonderful if performance improved, performance is always good (but AI also important - if only there was performance-free AI!)
.
I'll quote Strabo's Geographica (Book I, Chapter I section 20-21) for you (written about the time of Augustus). I have underlined the most important parts
As the size of the earth has been demonstrated by other writers, we shall here take for granted and receive as accurate what they have advanced. We shall also assume that the earth is spheroidal, that its surface is likewise spheroidal, and above all, that bodies have a tendency towards its centre, which latter point is clear to the perception of the most average understanding. However we may show summarily that the earth is spheroidal, from the consideration that all things however distant tend to its centre, and that every body is attracted towards its centre of gravity; this is more distinctly proved from observations of the sea and sky, for here the evidence of the senses, and common observation, is alone requisite. The convexity of the sea is a further proof of this to those who have sailed; for they cannot perceive lights at a distance when placed at the same level as their eyes, but if raised on high, they at once become perceptible to vision, though at the same time further removed. So, when the eye is raised, it sees what before was utterly imperceptible. Homer speaks of this when he says,http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0239:book=1:chapter=1
“ Lifted up on the vast wave he quickly beheld afar.62
”
Sailors, as they approach their destination, behold the shore continually raising itself to their view; and objects which had at first seemed low, begin to elevate themselves. Our gnomons, also, are, among other things, evidence of the revolution of the heavenly bodies; and common sense at once shows us, that if the depth of the earth were infinite,63 such a revolution could not take place.Odyssey v. 393.
[...]
Still, we do not expect that they should be such thorough masters of the subject as to know what stars rise and set together for the different quarters of the earth; those which have the same meridian line, the elevation of the poles, the signs which are in the zenith, with all the various phenomena which differ as well in appearance as reality with the variations of the horizon and arctic circle. With some of these matters, unless as philosophical pursuits, they should not burden themselves at all; others they must take for granted without searching into their causes. This must be left to the care of the philosopher; the statesman can have no leisure, or very little, for such pursuits. Those who, through carelessness and ignorance, are not familiar with the globe and the circles traced upon it, some parallel to each other, some at right angles to the former, others, again, in an oblique direction; nor yet with the position of the tropics, equator, and zodiac, (that circle through which the sun travels in his course, and by which we reckon the changes of season and the winds,) such persons we caution against the perusal of our work.
A globe makes sense for the timeline of the game.
argument that says boats not being seen after X miles proves globe has been contested ,once you zoom in with a poweful camera it starts to appear again. problem is with atmospheric conditions,now there are many explanations for both sides of the argument but it doesnt need to be flat earth andits not the best argument to use
all other things you mentioned also have counter explanation
i am sure there were many more who promoted flat earth in the ancient days
also what does 'spherodial' mean, a globe?
and also, i wouldnt trust those guys unconditionally , not the ancient people not the scientists, for they all are subjective deep down
The map looks fantastic, a job well done. I can't wait to see what else this new version of Clausewitz can do.
Come to think of it. Are there things that will "appear" on the map (e.g. roads) when they get build?
You can see roads in certain areas and not in orders in the released screenshots so I'd say there's a pretty good chance
The Seleucids are in a bit of pickle when it comes to naming conventions, as originally they'd have been Babylonia/Mesopotamia and then become Syria if going by regional-capital monikers, and so it's just easier to refer to them as their Dynasty. It's also a little further complicated in that the Seleucids never really adopted local customs like the Ptolemies and preferred to continue Greek colonization across the ME, so there also wouldn't be a local cultural entity that would be easy to identify them with like Egypt (at least early on).
If the earth is flat then why does the sun shine for different people at different times? A sphere rotating a disk is ridiculous and gravity doesn't allow too big flat objects. Also the argument that Earth would be rising constantly causing gravity is ridiculous, as everything else would have to do the same and gases would float away.
we must not make this a flat earth vs globe thread. but we can end the argument by saying that i am right