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beezneez

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just wanted to let all the guys at Paradox what a great company you guys are. You make awesome games AND follow them up w/ patches LONG after the game's release. It keeps the game fresh, and I know you guys don't get paid for patches. My girlfriend got me EU1 for christmas 2 years ago as a "filler" gift to go along w/ what i really wanted (Medal of Honor). EU turned out to be better than MOH and I've been hooked ever since. I've gotten more play out of this game than any other. I dont post much on the forums, but i thought all at paradox should what a great job you all do. 1.7 will keep me busy until HOI 1.4 comes out :)
Keep it up doooods! :)
 

unmerged(15881)

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I Soooooo disagree!

I think 1.7 is finally the death of me and EUII. I think everyone is so fixated on making conquest difficult that it has really degraded just playing the game. I get one random event with a -3 to stability and spent the next 10 years fighting rebellions. Instead of trying to make the AI better or the historical aspect more correct, Paradox continues to try and punish non-historical play. If the game dynamics were more historic, shouldn't the game play end up more dynamic. I assume there was a reason that Genoa didn't take over most of continental Europe, yet I can in EUII. Shouldn't they be focusing on building into the game the reasons Genoa couldn't have done this feat historically instead of all these stop gap measures (BB, WE, TCs) to punish people who try? I hope for EUIII they go back to the drawing board and start again from scratch and build a better engine.
 

unmerged(8351)

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are you insane?...yes the engine does have many many problems...but at the same time it is also one of the best I have ever seen. Modeling 400years of gameplay and all the factors which led to things turning out even remotely like they did historically is almost impossible to capture and still have a fun and reasonably simple game. Thus some unelegant tools like bb (which actually is not that bad in my eyes but i can see where some think it is a little coarse) need to be added as abstractions for incredibly complex and difificult to model processes.

I would be horrified if they scrapped the engine for eu3 and ii hope that game is just a major refinement of this one not something new eu2 2.0 so to speak. Look what happened to MOO when they redid the engine now the game has lost most of its character and is a no fun unwieldy piece of crap. Anyway long live paradox and eu2 and woes be to they who question its power and glory :)
 

unmerged(12905)

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I think 1.7 is finally the death of me and EUII. I think everyone is so fixated on making conquest difficult that it has really degraded just playing the game. I get one random event with a -3 to stability and spent the next 10 years fighting rebellions. Instead of trying to make the AI better or the historical aspect more correct, Paradox continues to try and punish non-historical play. If the game dynamics were more historic, shouldn't the game play end up more dynamic. I assume there was a reason that Genoa didn't take over most of continental Europe, yet I can in EUII. Shouldn't they be focusing on building into the game the reasons Genoa couldn't have done this feat historically instead of all these stop gap measures (BB, WE, TCs) to punish people who try? I hope for EUIII they go back to the drawing board and start again from scratch and build a better engine.

I agree with this. Some of the people on this board, well meaning as they are, are so obsessed with getting a "historical" result in their games that all the flexibility it completely wiped out. I don't want to watch a historical simulation of real life events. I want take a small country and carve out an empire for myself.

The introduction in the manual says: "Just like their historical predessors, the players can set out to literally discover, conquer, and forever change the entire world." Well yes that's true...but only if you play certain countries, only at certain times, only in certain places etc. etc. simply because anything else would be "ahistorical."

Though I suppose this strive for ultra realism is a common trait amongst all genres of gaming. Go to the Counterstrike forums and amongst all the swearing, racism and homopobia you'll find endless amounts of people complaining that their guns shoot far too straight or the bullets are too big by 3 pixels etc.

Oh well, just something to grind my teeth about!
 
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Bollocks!

Sorry, none of you people that complain the game's getting too difficult know what you're talking about. EU 2 is different from other games in that one really needs to get to know it to be good. It's still possible to carve out an empire for yourself starting as a one-province minor, only now it's actually a real challenge instead of being ridiculously easy. If you want a mindless game that takes 1 minute to learn and 5 minutes to master, why, you've got plenty of other choices out there. You don't need to play Eu 2. We - the crowd that's supposedly making the game impossibly difficult - find other game offerings trite, and yes, we want eu 2 to be as rich and complex as it possibly could be without becoming tedious.

Besides, can't you try playing at an easier difficulty level? If you actually did so already and still have trouble, what's happening is that you simply don't know the game well enough.
 

unmerged(6777)

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I don't understand your complaints at all. In what way is the human player unable to carve out whatever nation he wishes? It isn't a cakae walk any more, but it certainly isn't impossible by any means. You want to be able to do a WC with Genoa? Fire away. It's not that hard (although it is, admittedly, hard now than it used to be). Pick a nation...it can be done.

I think what many players would like, however, is for the game to procede on a roughly historical basis except for whatever effects there are from the player's county rocking the boat. 1.07, while perhpas not perfect, does an admirable job of challenging the player without trending towards utter rediculous results (most of the time...of course there are exceptions).
 

Guinnessmonkey

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Ok.... Coming up for air after my first 1.07 session: Having not played since 1.05 (HOI beta = time drain) I have to say that 1.07 is an amazing improvement. Sure, there are kinks to work out, but the game has made a wonderful leap forward. Even playing as the Ottomans isn't mindlessly easy anymore. I no longer have to restrain myself to not take over the middle east before the 1400's are out: my opponents and the realistic expenses that go along with raising and supporting armies do that just fine... I can still expand (I'm slightly beyond where they were historically...) but I actually have fun doing it again.

1.07 + UGC (or whatever it ends up being called) = me playing EU2 for years to come (at least untill EU3 ;)).
 

Castellon

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Originally posted by Becephalus
are you insane?...


(MODERATOR COMMENT)
Lets watch the apearance of personal attacks please.
 

Dawkins

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Re: I Soooooo disagree!

Originally posted by MJames
I think 1.7 is finally the death of me and EUII. I think everyone is so fixated on making conquest difficult that it has really degraded just playing the game. I get one random event with a -3 to stability and spent the next 10 years fighting rebellions. Instead of trying to make the AI better or the historical aspect more correct, Paradox continues to try and punish non-historical play. If the game dynamics were more historic, shouldn't the game play end up more dynamic. I assume there was a reason that Genoa didn't take over most of continental Europe, yet I can in EUII. Shouldn't they be focusing on building into the game the reasons Genoa couldn't have done this feat historically instead of all these stop gap measures (BB, WE, TCs) to punish people who try? I hope for EUIII they go back to the drawing board and start again from scratch and build a better engine.

Are you playing on very easy difficulty? If you can't get a vastly ahistorical outcome playing on very easy setting then the problem........ well it isn't the games problem lets put it that way ;)

Seriously though, you make good points. Idealy more realistic devices than WE, BB etc would be used, but I find them a good approximation of the sort of pressures that limited growth of empires in history. Certainly a far far better approximation than I've seen in any other strategy game I've played.... and thats the clincher.
 

unmerged(5934)

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Re: I Soooooo disagree!

Originally posted by MJames
I think 1.7 is finally the death of me and EUII. I think everyone is so fixated on making conquest difficult that it has really degraded just playing the game. I get one random event with a -3 to stability and spent the next 10 years fighting rebellions. Instead of trying to make the AI better or the historical aspect more correct, Paradox continues to try and punish non-historical play. If the game dynamics were more historic, shouldn't the game play end up more dynamic. I assume there was a reason that Genoa didn't take over most of continental Europe, yet I can in EUII. Shouldn't they be focusing on building into the game the reasons Genoa couldn't have done this feat historically instead of all these stop gap measures (BB, WE, TCs) to punish people who try? I hope for EUIII they go back to the drawing board and start again from scratch and build a better engine.

I can't agree. Well, I agree wiyh you, Genoa didn't conquer the world ;) but I will say that the reasons can be described as BB, WE and TC.

BB - Countries did ally against anyone getting too big and powerful. Actually BB is too mild for my liking, history has many examples of it. For example, pretty much _everyone_ in Europe allied against Louis XIV and he had just got Artois and French Comté!

WE - Could be better reflected, as it grows only due to the duration of the war, and not in relation with the sacrifices needed, as it should. But still it is a good way of simulating reality.

TC - Tax collectors are hated? Incredible... Again it would be great to have a more detailed system, but this one simulates very well in my opinion the effect the introducing 'modern' administrations had in so many places.
 

Apebe

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Re: Re: I Soooooo disagree!

Originally posted by Alatriste
TC - Tax collectors are hated? Incredible... Again it would be great to have a more detailed system, but this one simulates very well in my opinion the effect the introducing 'modern' administrations had in so many places.

The Tax systems had soooo many regional varieties in those times, unifying cut a lot of local privileges and often new "national" taxes were just added causing unrest among the peasants ....
 

SJG

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The changes in 1.07 (with the addition of the public betas) make the game much more fun. Money it tighter, armies are smaller (it really is a choice of having no money and a big army or a smaller army and some money).

I'm not sure if it's just my experience but rebels also seem a bit less troublesome in the early stages (they used to beat my armies frequently at low-tech, now it seems to happen a bit less frequently).

With the beta, inflation is much more realistic as even small countries can reduce inflation. TCs are actually worth having, again more realistic. I'm not sure the RR increase is realistic as there are already way too many revolts.

The only real concern I have is WE. I don't like WE at all, I'd be quite happy if it was scrapped. It is certainly way too powerful, if it increased at even half the rate it does now it would still be way too powerful. Having said that, though, I think WE is essential to balance the game, so until a suitable replacement is found/implemented there's not much to do about it.
 

Thanak

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The new patch is great, the beta change are great too. I still have a few thing I would change, the main one would be rebels. There are just to many rebels to fight. With tax collector / WE penalty / random event your country is about to exploded half the time.

I alway would have like for war exhaustion to be modeled as a drop in manpower instead of revolt risk.
 

unmerged(4828)

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I just started playing 1.06 with portugal and liked the way things worked in that patch and now there is a new patch !
For those who think expansion is to hard in this patch, I would recommend playing 1.05. I think things needed to get harder for the players who have played this game alot. There's been alot of talk how to do wc with one country minors....:rolleyes:
anyway i must agree with the praise to paradox, these new patches makes a good game even better.
 

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Originally posted by Thanak
The new patch is great, the beta change are great too. I still have a few thing I would change, the main one would be rebels. There are just to many rebels to fight. With tax collector / WE penalty / random event your country is about to exploded half the time.

I alway would have like for war exhaustion to be modeled as a drop in manpower instead of revolt risk.

I strongly agree with something along these lines (not a manpower drop though - manpower problems in war are already modelled.).

It would be good if something other than dozens of little rebelions could be used to slow down player war mongering though. Rebels become incredibly tedious very quickly. There must be a better way?
 

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More thoughts

If the game engine is so good, why don't you hear about more people playing fantasia? When you strip away the historical aspect, the game loses most of charm. And I didn't say the game was too easy, but just misbalanced. I don't know how other people play but I spend most of my time with the latest patch watching my treasury slowly build up and scrolling around watching what other countries are doing. When I used to play the game I set my own constraints: no BB over 10, never attack anyone of my own religion (although I would defend and/or annex), etc. I think these "self-imposed" game play constraints work much better than the ones that are being built into the game because I enjoyed being flexible. Sometimes I want to try and take over the world. Sometimes I enjoy setting up a trading empire or set my goal to be the largest colonial power. With the new rules I find my games getting more and more routine---it's harder to "win", but the road to victory is looking pretty much the same. I can't seem to get a merchant to stick now to save my life, so that's out. Missionaries are too expensive now that cash is strapped so I can't convert my overseas empire. Everytime I go to war they revolt now because of the increased WE and TC rules. I find myself being funneled into playing the same game over and over.

If you want to take over the world as Tuscany, more power to you. Please don't mess up my game to make it impossible though. Let people play how they want.
 

Velociryx

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MJames - you CAN play how you want! Wanna take over the world as Tuscany?

Start a game. Press f12, type in "alba", press f12 again, then enter, and have at it!

If you want to play a more historically constrained game, don't follow the above steps.

I guess I'm not quite sure where the lack of choice is??

-=Vel=-
 

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While I think the patches make the game better, I also tend to agree with MJames. I think he strikes at the root of EU's weakness, and the bane of us all; the AI.

I appreciate the increasing difficulty, it had refreshed a game and made a challenge where before there was none, but the unfortunate side affect of this has been the crutch of all AIs; unbalance the game to make it harder.

Why didn't Genoa take over the world? Well in EU terms it still could, though slowed by internal revolts, in the real world it would have been the impossibility to conquer large tracts of Europe in the face of competent opposition, and the inability to wage decisive wars every time.

Secondly, the other engine weakness for me is pre-determination. Austro-Hungarian union is the most extreme example of a farcical event. Death at Mohacs is predetermined, even if Mohacs never occurs. I know that events are fun and add flavour to the game, but really; they make a mockery sometimes of the player. For example, as France one can eradicate Protestantism through missionaries; it's expensive, time consuming and distracts from anything else during the period if one wants an homogenous religion during the 16th century. The reward? 5 French wars of religion regardless. It cheapens the effort, and dispells the feeling that one is affecting the game.

I would like to clarify that these are quibbles which do not have a solution under the current engine. The game is still tremendous fun, and the best value for money I have had with a game. I think Paradox and Johan especially deserve many thanks.

Time to wrap up EUII and move on to EU3 soon I hope.