I like MP, but i HATE STEAM
- Thread starter hhyy_best
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So you mean they use the data that is public to everyone (how much time you spent playing a certain game) and try to do something useful with it (eg. targeted advertisements)? Shocking.
Also you understand there are a lot worse things going on besides this outside of Steam, right? Have you heard of Google? They figured out many of my interests and my age group just from me using the internet and sometimes using Google to search for things. If this kind of stuff bothers you you should never visit the internet ever, period. I mean, what's the alternative to Google? Is there even one? Google is everywhere. You can choose to use Steam or not, besides installing software to hide yourself on the internet you can't avoid companies like Google from gathering your data once you clicked a link and entered a website.
There have been rumours that Steam scans other programs than the games you have bought from them but I think overall it is nothing more serious than what most people do using facebook. general advice is to dedicate one computer solely for gaming and internet browsing and keeping all personal or valuable business data on another computer, especially if you are or intend to become famous or rich
Rumours are just that, rumours. I'm almost entirely sure they don't check up on your computer without you allowing them to do so. I was asked if I wanted to share my hardware data or not. Beyond that they could realistically go behind your back and do it anyway but I don't think they would be very keen on doing it, especially as laws in this area are constantly moving forward to the better for the users. There are also programs that provably do this and more without asking, for example EA's Origin and their anti-cheat measure (for example through BF3) that constantly monitors your RAM to see what programs are running. While it could seem fair to guarantee their users aren't cheating they are guaranteed to be using this information and more for their own use, if for no other reason than the fact that they're EA.
If a Steam/Valve "monopoly" is what it takes to get people out of the claws of such extremely shitty companies like EA, Activision, Microsoft (games/console department) or Ubisoft then it should be welcomed by everyone. The cherry on top is that Valve is actually a great company not controlled by a bunch of stockholders that want to make as much money as possible in the shortest amount of time, they are just in an extremely advantageous position because they actually tried to do something smart and it really paid off. Not just Steam but everything about them.
I certainly hope MP will be steam-only! Paradox is doing steam naysayers a favor by forcing them to come to terms with their unfounded biases against steam. It's a wonderful platform for gaming and going Steam-only is absolutely a step in the right direction
I personally have no problem with this. I've always known Steam MP to be pretty stable, plus the hotjoining feature will work very well with it. Much looking forward to EU MP.
A LAN has in this context nothing to do with the network layout. Of course is everybody behind a router technically in a LAN. By running a LAN party, I mean collecting 20 buddies with their computer in a basement, using a big switch to connect them, and play multiplayer games. Access to the internet is not easy, and the goal is not to send data over the global network simply to play in the same room. I Know it sounds so 1998's, but it is very fun, even today. Maybe I'm the last to do that.
I'm quite confused : what is a "standalone server" in the dev diary 33 ? A server hosted on my side, but that require internet access to run ?
Maybe I don't know what "stamworks" is. It could only be some tools that do not make multiplayer dependent on internet and steam servers. I'm not a specialist on this matter. I will see on release (or before if someone has an answer) and adapt my "LAN parties" to the game.
No, you are not the last one. Thats exactly what I'd like to know too.
Steamworks provides the means for games to integrate with the Steam client, including networking and player authentication tools for both server and peer-to-peer multiplayer games, matchmaking services, support for Steam community friends and groups, Steam statistics and achievements, integrated voice communications, and Steam Cloud support; the API also provides for anti-cheating devices and digital copy management.
I don't see why people still have issues with Steam. Back in the good old days of HL2 I despised Steam, and until a few years ago I tried to avoid Steam whenever I could. Now? It's an excellent platform to buy and manage games, and as a bonus it simplifies the lives of devs. Writing good network code is _hard_, and with steamworks you get it practically for free. Sure it could have issues, you could even do a shoddy job when you integrate it *cough* Civ5 *cough*, but it's there and it more or less works out of the box.
Regarding Steam == DRM, that's just not true. Yes, you can add DRM easily by using SteamWorks, but there's nothing saying you will have an intrusive DRM just because you distribute on Steam. It will check your key when you activate the game, DLC's have to be validated once with Steam, but after that you can actually skip Steam and play the game without having an internet connection. (Protip: Steam only bans you for wearing a tinfoil hat while you're online, if you go offline you're golden).
As for LAN games, I don't think all your traffic will go through Steam if you actually run the server locally. You probably need to use a Steam lobby to actually host the game, and I'm quite certain there will be _some_ traffic going to Steam while the game runs, how else would someone be able to hotjoin after all? However I'm reasonably certain the TCP/IP protocol will behave just like always, traffic tries to do as few hops as it can get away with, and hence it mostly stays inside the LAN.
Regarding Steam == DRM, that's just not true. Yes, you can add DRM easily by using SteamWorks, but there's nothing saying you will have an intrusive DRM just because you distribute on Steam. It will check your key when you activate the game, DLC's have to be validated once with Steam, but after that you can actually skip Steam and play the game without having an internet connection. (Protip: Steam only bans you for wearing a tinfoil hat while you're online, if you go offline you're golden).
As for LAN games, I don't think all your traffic will go through Steam if you actually run the server locally. You probably need to use a Steam lobby to actually host the game, and I'm quite certain there will be _some_ traffic going to Steam while the game runs, how else would someone be able to hotjoin after all? However I'm reasonably certain the TCP/IP protocol will behave just like always, traffic tries to do as few hops as it can get away with, and hence it mostly stays inside the LAN.
I just want to know how it will work in offline LAN parties. I regularly run some LAN parties, and it _is_ awesome. Minecraft, BF1942, CS, several TD and some Paradox titles (even if they are time consuming, I remember a great week-end playing EU2 AGCEEP with 6 players) During this time, I prefer not having internet access (Facebook take all players away from actual gaming), or I can't (not in my house)
Of course, Steamworks == toolbox, including DRM, network tools, but all these tools are optionnal, dev could include it or not. And I'm happy that the devs use some premade toolbox to manage multiplayer. After all, PDS is a game maker, not a network protocol developper.
It won't be the end of world if EU4 LAN parties require internet access, I just will have to adapt. I just wanted to know, and I am really confused by the "dedicated server" topic in the dev diary.
- Dec 14, 1999
- 18.404
- 38.945
Well, at least we will have some fun with "Steam is down, no MP" panic threads from time to time too.
Well, at least we will have some fun with "Steam is down, no MP" panic threads from time to time too.
How often is Steam down? In the past 2 years, I can think of literally 1 time where Steam was down when I wanted to use it.
Why is anyone complaining? EU3 Multiplayer was jsut poor. There is literally no way this could be any worse. Its very likely to be much better. The devs know what they are doing.
It is down from time to time. There possibly will be panic threads every time it happens, because it's the only way to MP this time. That's what I mean.
Anyway, I too think it's a DRM if it has such restrictions. I hoped that we would be able to host games with dedicated servers and not use Steamwork when doing so.
And I hope we would be able to play with older versions (major thing with CK2, for example, when update can break a mod for a while), Steam will always autoupdate MP games.
I really haven't experienced any downtime either. I've used it for almost 6 years (since Orange Box) and have never noticed a time when the service was simply unavailable/not able to be used. There are some scheduled maintenances but I haven't even noticed those either. So really this is not something that any normal user will ever suffer from.
A lot of the recent threads I noticed from this search are just from the routine and planned maintenance that there's an official thread for. You can't get away from things like that no matter what. I mean, there's routine maintenance in WoW every week, right? It's not like people are complaining about those 3 hours.
Beyond that everything will experience problems sometimes but afaik you can still play all your games even when Steam is down.
No, you can't play MP-only games (if that's not obvious). War of the Roses, for example, won't even load main menu if Steamworks are down.
But at least we are not on Diablo 3 and Simcity level with EU4, atm.
Honestly, can someone please explain to me why they hate steam so much? What is honestly so bad about a service that you've probably not used for more than a week?
My only concern is force majeure factor that reliance on Steam adds. Otherwise, I love Steam.
How backwards can you be?God... Steam is hundred times better for MP than how it is now.