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Imgran

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I can see where people are coming from though. From what I have read here most anger comes from making development such an important factor in the core game, when development is basically DLC locked. So if you don't own the DLC you get less than you previously had.

Yes exactly and believe me, that's my only objection to CS. I actually love the forts system, it really means that it's a lot harder to lose a war with one decisive battle. If they did one of two things to help with the building problems I'd be a much happier camper, and it honestly doesn't matter which one

EITHER:

-- bring back the old building system entirely for core players and fix the crime they committed on North America so that core players can have a game with *a* complete building system without having to revert

OR

Put the WHOLE new building system in the core game.

This half and half nonsense pleases nobody. It needs to be fixed one way or the other.
 
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Belisarius89

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Glad to see at least one positive thread - I am thoroughly enjoying the new expansion!

I just recently wrapped up the Thirty Years' War as a 120% discipline Brandenburg, and the new forts made it such a more enjoyable experience. Normally, I'd have just hunted down every army and wiped them out as quickly as possible, pretty much winning the war immediately. This time around though, I had to be much more tactically aware, which made for a great challenge.
 

Phibs

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Agree with OP, now that I've sunk my teeth into CS, I wouldn't wanna go back.
With that being said, I empathise with non-owners feeling slighted.
 
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Haccoude

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Actually I just thought of something, some people are pissed about the building changes, but almost all feedback on the fort system I've read has been positive. If (and that's a big IF) Paradox are going to accommodate the desires of the haters, what would be the downside of letting the new building system be behind a paywall too? Because the new fort system is fantastic, and maybe Paradox has been too generous by letting that be a part of the free patch rather than the paid DLC. What are your thoughts?
 

neondt

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This is the best state the game has ever been in. Why? It's nothing to do with the expansion features. It's about forts, and locked movement after 50% progress. The game now has some actual tactical depth. Granted this is a grand strategy game, but the tactical aspect has always been a necessary but neglected aspect until now.
 
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ahyangyi

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Actually I just thought of something, some people are pissed about the building changes, but almost all feedback on the fort system I've read has been positive. If (and that's a big IF) Paradox are going to accommodate the desires of the haters, what would be the downside of letting the new building system be behind a paywall too? Because the new fort system is fantastic, and maybe Paradox has been too generous by letting that be a part of the free patch rather than the paid DLC. What are your thoughts?
Forts can't be made DLC-only because you can't implement an alternative system. DLCs are supposed to be useful even if you buy them during a game. Savegames with and without a DLC have to be compatible.

Of course there is the gray area of "disabling building and removing forts" and "can't mothball forts". I believe these are more terrible than disabling developments though.
 

kitemasaki

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I agree. The game is better than ever! I am a huge fan of strategy and now it has become even more in-depth. Limiting resources based on quality of land is an amazing change and makes the game either easier/harder depending on where you start. It is nice to have a positive thread since we all see the other ones filled with negative/crazy comments, but its ok. Remember, every single time a DLC/patch comes out, the same group shows up like a rash. Just like a rash, it will go away. Just don't scratch or it might flare up. :)
 

Haccoude

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Forts can't be made DLC-only because you can't implement an alternative system. DLCs are supposed to be useful even if you buy them during a game. Savegames with and without a DLC have to be compatible.

Of course there is the gray area of "disabling building and removing forts" and "can't mothball forts". I believe these are more terrible than disabling developments though.
The more I think about it, the more this problem seems like it is exclusively caused by how consumer friendly Paradox is.
 

guitar19

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The more I think about it, the more this problem seems like it is exclusively caused by how consumer friendly Paradox is.
This.

I also think that the preponderance of "complaining" on this board isn't representative of how the total population of players feel. Like many players, I don't post too often. I am too busy enjoying the game. I think people have a right to complain, but some are not all that constructive...

CS isn't perfect but it is the best dlc, in the best state on release that I have experienced for eu4. It does suit my preferred playstyle. I like to play in 'pulses'. Where I gain territory and then work to consolidate the gains for a while before grabbing more land . It feels more realistic too. I am a huge fan of the increased coring cost. This dlc also forces one to think even more about crippling the enemy through wars (like making them release countries) rather than just using wars for taking huge swaths of territory for one's own self.

Of course, I have my own wishlist of improvements:

1) Development costs scale up a bit too fast. One of the problems is that development of a province in one area (say base tax) increases the future development costs in another area (say military). I think it would be better to separate the increase of costs by each of the 3 types of mp. For example, if you have a province where the development cost is 80/80/80 and you spend 80 adm points to raise base tax, it shouldn't raise the cost to raise military development (that should still stays at 80).
2) Make orthodox less weak (at least do something about the rarity of patriarchy events)
3) Improve the naval system (for example--too many all or nothing battles where an entire fleet is sunk that doesn't represent naval combat of the time). This has been a problem for a while and probably won't be addressed until another dlc. But, I keep hoping....
 

Siddyus

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I like CS too, IMO one of the best DLC released so far. Aside from the new features that made peacetime not so boring any more. It seems the AI has improved as well when it comes to expansion and the game is a lot faster regardless of what year. A few more updates down the line and im sure this DLC come out perfect.
 

Jamey

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I love Common Sense. It's one of the best DLC releases Paradox has made. My big complaint was performance issues with 1.12.0, but those were fixed either by 1.12.1 or a video drive upgrade. :)

I made it to around 1500 as England, so I'm still getting a feel for things.

Positives of 1.12 / CS:
- Forts and ZOC
- Building changes
- Development
- Parliament (it's small, but its internal management)
- The new HYW setup
- Burgundy setup
- Subject management options

Things that should be looked at:
- ZOC, especially in areas with small nations like the HRE
- AT gain. It feels anemic
- Subject relations - having a lot of vassals and colonial nations gets tedious with the diplomat swapping to keep relations up

I'm looking forward to the new Protestant mechanics. :)