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Haccoude

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There was been quite a few threads about the evils of Common Sense, so I would just like to tell Paradox that I'm actually quite a fan. I've actually had quite a bit of fun in wars doing nothing but micromanaging the looting of provinces in an attempt to ensure that every month of a war gives me as much of the "looting potential" of my armies as possible.

This is not to say that CS couldn't be improved. For an example despite how much more interesting the new fort system is, I really think it could be changed a bit to better reflect how the role of forts changed and evolved over the timeframe.

Change the first level of fort from "Castle" to "Castle Complex" or something like that, then add castles as either buildings that don't take up a slot or as a province modifier. Castles would be in almost every province of Feudal Europe, and would give 1 fort level and 1000 defenders, but at the cost of a minimum Autonomy and strengthening Noble Rebels and pretenders. Castle Complexes function like they do currently, but with the change that they and all other actual forts get +2 fort level and +20% defensiveness.
Then have destroying basic castles be a struggle against the nobility, but have it made easier with the tech that gives cannons, along with a few changes to cannons. First off, the first cannons have no pips and all further cannons have fewer pips. Instead, the base siege bonus of having at least one cannon in an army is increased by 2 (so it goes 3-7) and each cannon regiment reduce local defensiveness by 10% (to a max of 20%).
Than have the tech that is intended to give Napoleonic artillery give an additional +1 to siege bonus (so it goes 4-8) and increase cap on cannon reduction of defensiveness to 50%.

Like I said, this is not needed as the new fort system is much better on its own. Its just a way to illustrate how sieges changes and a way to help illustrate that both society and warfare changed quite a lot during the EU4 timeframe.

To get back to the discussions of why CS is so very terrible (which I disagree, I think it's a phenomenal expansion), I think it might be related to achievements. Now, all achievements are stupid of course, but there people actually like them and they are allowed to do so. I think the problem might be that you have locked achievements into Ironman mode, While I'm happy with that because I don't like achievements and like being able to avoid them, the old "Just mod it" response doesn't have as much weight if there is any downside (no matter how small) to modding the game.

I think the majority* agrees with me that CS is a good expansion, but by giving your own favoured playing style preference over others through achievements, I think you have locked yourself into getting more flack whenever there are significant changes (and especially nerfs) to it.

*At least according to the Like vs Dislike ratio for the "I hate CS threads".
 
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generalolaf

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It makes me a bit sad seeing the prevalence of 'bashing' vs. 'complaints' and that Paradox might be more inclined to listen if the posts were more on the lines of "hey, this is a problem" and less on the lines of "I'm going to boycott Paradox until they fix this wreck of a game, and everyone needs to know about it!"

Okay. Vent over.

Yeah, I'm a big fan so far. The coring cost change gets me a bit, but overall the changes are really interesting and the new fort mechanic IMO is far more dynamic and interesting than the old one. That's definitely the best change. I also already can't count the number of times I've dismissed an advisor (although I'd love it if you couldn't get the same type of advisor you dismissed - I had to dismiss four spy efficiency advisors in a row when I had a coalition on my back and needed the BROT guy).
 
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Haccoude

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Good expansion, for me better than el dorado for example.
Definitely. El Dorado did improve some things, but the improvements were not as big nor did they affect as much as the improvements CS brought. El Dorado was felt more like "stuff pack DLC", while Common Sense feels like an "Expansion DLC".
 

Haldan

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El Dorado brought me the greatest game I ever had, so it's close to my heart. But Common Sense is my favorite expansion due to the amount of alternate playstyles it allows.
 
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PedroVargas

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I have a balanced but more or less positive view.

It's always great to have stuff added to the game. New mechanics keep it fresh. It also was one of the more bug free patches in recent times I thought.

What's a bit off for me is the balancing.
- Core/Annex cost are too high.
- Buddhist mechanics don't work because you're almost always around -100 Karma (releasing nations gives Karma but costs DIP, no other religion takes so much from you for what it's giving you).
- The Italy event is a bit too swift and not that well documented.
- France and Muscovy seem to be a bit weak early game (they are fine if they survive it).
- Developing non-flatland provinces is way to expansive (useless penalty)
- Lack of the additional diplomat from the embassy hurts a lot

There's a lot of things that further limit conquest (adm/dip cost, missing diplomat, slower manpower recovery). If that's the way Paradox wants the game to go, that's ok. I don't particularly agree with the decision though.

Still having lots of fun. Currently doing the Ceylon achievement, have all of middle & south India - tech is something like 10-5-18, so you see which monarch points you have enough of and which ones are sorely lacking ^^
 
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CyberianK

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Great expansion.

I also don't ming the CC increase so much I think it is WAI also there is admin efficiency. So less expansion in the early years which makes the game more interesting. Only thing I don't like so much is the way reduced Army Tradition gain.
 

LemonMonk

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I like the coring costs.... yes, someone does! It makes sense that a Czech Prague (referring to some other thread) with incredible development doesn't want to be ruled by a non-Czech government.

I think the best thing CS has done (for me) is slow down the game significantly - It makes decisions on where to expand more important. You cannot expand everywhere as easily (however it is possible), you should expand logically and if you were to take Prague for instance, a lot of your states resources probably would be used on subjugating the populous and accepting that you are their new leaders.

I would like more important diplomatic actions in the game though. More significance over alliances, maybe a no-opt out war system, whereby if an ally is attacked, you automatically join in their defence - you have no choice. Maybe when an ally attacks another state you get to choose whether or not you want to help, but in defence I think there is no reason not to help. A different way to perhaps make diplomatic actions more significant is if an alliance must be upheld for at least X years before it can be cancelled - at present it is too easy to betray other nations as you go.
 
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gothos

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I'm enjoying it a lot, comparably to Art of War. The new fort system makes wars feel more like wars (we all know carpet sieging was silly at best), and being able to claim and/or take capitals in peace deals is a long awaited change for me. prettier borders too!).
I'm not completely convinced about the increased coring/annexation costs, but that could be just the inner blobber inside me talking. You seriously feel the toll of taking land now. I would say it's still too low compared to development cost (though I'd rather they just reduced dev cost across the board instead). I like the idea behind government rank, but I haven't really felt the difference much. Still, cool addition.
New subject interactions are pretty good I'd say. Especially the one where you convert war help into more income - when you have small vassals in isolated places like Kutai or Makassar, you don't really want their troops marching into enemy lines and feeding them warscore, you may just get that extra dosh instead...

I really don't see what's all that rage about. It's a great refreshing change.

EDIT:
- Buddhist mechanics don't work because you're almost always around -100 Karma (releasing nations gives Karma but costs DIP, no other religion takes so much from you for what it's giving you).

Less annexing and more straight up vassalization is key over there. While annexing costs you 10 karma per province, forced vassalization costs 0. Integration costs 0. You have to go a bit slower (otherwise your armies will get smashed to bits) than usual, but you can blob. I finished my Ayu run by miltech 15...
 
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stnk

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It's awesome. After 2000 hours I am enjoying this game yet again. I really don't understand those threads full of hate...

I am doing the Ceylon run too and I actually like the Theravada mechanics. It forces you to change to a different playstyle - a bit more diplo game, because you cannot just DoW all the time. Sure the mana difference is there, but this disproportion would be there anyway so what is there to complain?

And the fort system... oh boy, that's what I wanted from EU4 :). No more hunting enemy half the country to stackwipe him. No more instawins by forcemarching into hearthlands of unprepared enemy. No more stupid 1 regiment carpet sieging/looting. And it actually allows you to play defensive wars, hiding behind forts.

In the Ceylon I mentioned I am actually facing mega-Ming, who got lucky ( I guess after Tver of all things killed Moscowy), consumed Manchuria, Oirat, half of Indochina and Bengal area, and all I can do with majority of India under me is get past two-three layers of his forts and then peace out, because I am out of manpower and starting to run into debts.

As for the cost of coring/annexation - I hope this will define new level of achievements of what you can do. No more world sprawling empires every run. Uniting India under Ceylon should be hard and something. In previous patches I could just conquer the world with Ceylon - THAT was silly.
 
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JagLover

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There are a number of good features.

The Fort system for example makes wars FAR more realistic. No more marching across the map. You can only go where you have a clear line of supply- Brilliant.

Being able to develop provinces is theoretically good-why it is only theory I will come back to.

The bad is I don't think they even bothered to think about how the other changes they made have unbalanced the game. For example you just don't get army tradition anymore, unless you go for "gamey" exploits like the sending of 5 stacks to get stackwiped.

The increased cost of coring + diploannex cost is an issue not because it makes WC virtually impossible (it should), but because it unbalances the game in that the small cannot grow to take on the big even when historically they could. Russia is a classic example. You haven't got all game to peacefully grow your provinces you have until about 1550 until you face the might of PLC (assuming you haven't prevented it from forming). Anything that slows down this growth is unbalancing the game. Why are you having massive monarch point costs to consolidate the Russian lands while Poland can still integrate Lithuania for free?

and regarding the above and talking about an unbalanced game, Orthodoxy is broken.
 
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Central

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I do like CS too. I lke the goal of pdx: less blobbing instead build tall. And yes it is a big change -> if you don't want it -> don't patch -> beating dead horse

But the removal of the "old buildings concept" and introducing only for dlc owners something similar is something i can't support.

But i rly can't enjoy to read the forums anymore.... it is so toxic, so much hate and yes whining.
 

AJ123

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Map Painter here....I like Common Sense.

I think the reason people are complaining about coring costs is because they are used to being at war pretty much nonstop. That's how I typically play once snowball begins.

Consider that wars are not taking as long to complete due to the for system. Want to cut off Muscovy from Siberia? Pre 1.12 meant a carpet sige across the Russian wilderness. As you sieged, you also had to protect your stacks, all the while watching your manpower and finances dissolve. Now, just siege Moskva and beat his army a few times. Even easier if he's fighting in another war when you strike. Same logic applies to dealing with colonizers in the Pacific and their colonial nations. Not having to siege the lands you want is a very positive change as far as I'm concerned.

My point is that coring costs had to go up with the new fort system. If they stayed the same and introduced the new fort system, we would all have a new appreciation of what early game blobbing would look like.

Wars are faster, so you don't accumulate as much admin during war. Coring costs are increased so you can't blob literally everywhere by 1700. Balance makes sense to me.
 
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yourworstnightm

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I can see where people are coming from though. From what I have read here most anger comes from making development such an important factor in the core game, when development is basically DLC locked. So if you don't own the DLC you get less than you previously had.
 
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RickMP80

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I like too, the exagerate coring cost is reduced in the late game with tecnoology... so It's hard blobbing in the early centuries... only one thing I don't like: the exagerate cost for liberate countries.
 
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ahyangyi

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There are a number of good features.

The Fort system for example makes wars FAR more realistic. No more marching across the map. You can only go where you have a clear line of supply- Brilliant.

Being able to develop provinces is theoretically good-why it is only theory I will come back to.

The bad is I don't think they even bothered to think about how the other changes they made have unbalanced the game. For example you just don't get army tradition anymore, unless you go for "gamey" exploits like the sending of 5 stacks to get stackwiped.

The increased cost of coring + diploannex cost is an issue not because it makes WC virtually impossible (it should), but because it unbalances the game in that the small cannot grow to take on the big even when historically they could. Russia is a classic example. You haven't got all game to peacefully grow your provinces you have until about 1550 until you face the might of PLC (assuming you haven't prevented it from forming). Anything that slows down this growth is unbalancing the game. Why are you having massive monarch point costs to consolidate the Russian lands while Poland can still integrate Lithuania for free?

and regarding the above and talking about an unbalanced game, Orthodoxy is broken.
I wish they give a massive LA to the Slavic lands in Lithuania and make it hard for PLC to reduce LA.
 

JagLover

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What is broken about Orthodoxy (not disagreeing just like to know)

Playing a Muscovy campaign at present (to around 1520) and have had only 3 events that increased patriarchal authority. At massive cost for each one (last one 10 prestige loss for a 5% gain). Others who have played further in have reported the same.

Catholicism still has the same bonuses it had pre-patch