I just mean... well, factions...

[Admiral Fischer]

Any vassal you marry into an NAP with can't faction,

Try marrying into, particularly in this case, all 26 vassals and their family. But yes, if one can actually manage to marry his offsprings into just half of these vassals things would get much better. Managing vassal revolts in a Pagan, or a Muslim realm is ridiculously easy nowadays thanks to this feature.

plus you get the 5 council positions+advisers who can't faction against you either. Between those, the majority of your realm's strength generally can't faction, and the remainder can be placated with spymaster/honorary titles/the essentially infinite gold any large realm has.

I believe this is true only for the realm with an 'Empowered Council' plus council voting for 'Declaration of War' is on 'Enabled'.

 

[Yeekim]

Opinion isn't everything. Vassals can use both their own Spymasters and Favors to pressure others to join their factions... and you can use yours to keep them out.
Fighting a rebellion once in a while isn´t end of the world, you know.
Crush them, imprison them, ransom them for some nice cash. You get a nice opinion bonus from crushing the revolt, and another for being merciful, if you release one who can't afford ransom.

 

[TheDungen]

My guess is that they joined because of a favour.

 

[mrstevehazzard]

I believe this is true only for the realm with an 'Empowered Council' plus council voting for 'Declaration of War' is on 'Enabled'.

Unless you absolutely have to play as an absolute monarch, I recommend keeping war declarations on for this reason alone. It's easy enough to bribe favors off of council members if they're not agreeing to your warmongering schemes, and the ability to muzzle your 4 most powerful vassals in an instant and prevent them from factioning is incalculably useful.

 

[Akka le Vil]

I'm going to mod a few things to make it more manageable (reduce the opinion at which people can join factions, and increases a bit some bonus to opinions), reload a previous game and manage it from there. Hopefully I can deter these factions before they appear.

So it worked pretty well in the end. Knowing what would await me, and being fed up with Conclave, I just reloaded, deactivated the DLC, reduced a bit the independence faction treshold (something like 40/60 instead of 60/80) and agressively gifted people and used my diplomatic counselor.

I guess it got me karma, 'cause was rewarded witha pretty awesome heir (and I didn't even needed to save-scum this one) with both genius and attractive.
This guy went on to mend the schism and reform the Roman Empire. I guess he deserves his "glorious" name.
And to top it of, he also gave me some incredible daughter :

Well, I had to plow through the family line to ensure she landed the heiress (I plead guilty to some save-scumming here), and I really felt terrible when I ended up kicking a puppy by excommuniating my son, imprisonning him and executing him. Doing that to someone who is your son and adores you is really sad
But well, no way I was gonna give up on Valeria
37 diplo and attractive... Even with the -10 penalty for being a woman and the lackluster husband she's going to have to settle on due to needing matrilineal marriage, she'll still be pretty much venerated by her entire fiefdom

 

[Humanoid Typhoon]

So it worked pretty well in the end. Knowing what would await me, and being fed up with Conclave, I just reloaded, deactivated the DLC, reduced a bit the independence faction treshold (something like 40/60 instead of 60/80) and agressively gifted people and used my diplomatic counselor.

I guess it got me karma, 'cause was rewarded witha pretty awesome heir (and I didn't even needed to save-scum this one) with both genius and attractive.
This guy went on to mend the schism and reform the Roman Empire. I guess he deserves his "glorious" name.
And to top it of, he also gave me some incredible daughter :

Well, I had to plow through the family line to ensure she landed the heiress (I plead guilty to some save-scumming here), and I really felt terrible when I ended up kicking a puppy by excommuniating my son, imprisonning him and executing him. Doing that to someone who is your son and adores you is really sad
But well, no way I was gonna give up on Valeria
37 diplo and attractive... Even with the -10 penalty for being a woman and the lackluster husband she's going to have to settle on due to needing matrilineal marriage, she'll still be pretty much venerated by her entire fiefdom

Because if you can't beat it, mod it so you can beat it.

Side note: If you register CK2 here on the forums you get a free DLC. I think it's the Greek Unit Pack which would fit your play through nicely.

 

[kmh42]

I don't understand why people are having such large factions in Conclave. Conclave made it much easier to avoid factions:
Any vassal you marry into an NAP with can't faction, plus you get the 5 council positions+advisers who can't faction against you either. Between those, the majority of your realm's strength generally can't faction, and the remainder can be placated with spymaster/honorary titles/the essentially infinite gold any large realm has.

I have to fully agree with this now. I the first month I hated these constant faction. In one playthrough I had a fully council all the time just to not get this factions. But now I have a huge Empire from France spanning to Mongolia and I have maxed out every law. I play with abolished council since I became Emperor and I have no troubles with factions. NAP are the way to go. Just get as many kinds as possible an marry them all. I don't use favors at all and very rarely the Chancellor or Spymaster.

 

[clockworkBabbag]

So it worked pretty well in the end. Knowing what would await me, and being fed up with Conclave, I just reloaded, deactivated the DLC, reduced a bit the independence faction treshold (something like 40/60 instead of 60/80) and agressively gifted people and used my diplomatic counselor.

I guess it got me karma, 'cause was rewarded witha pretty awesome heir (and I didn't even needed to save-scum this one) with both genius and attractive.
This guy went on to mend the schism and reform the Roman Empire. I guess he deserves his "glorious" name.
And to top it of, he also gave me some incredible daughter :

Well, I had to plow through the family line to ensure she landed the heiress (I plead guilty to some save-scumming here), and I really felt terrible when I ended up kicking a puppy by excommuniating my son, imprisonning him and executing him. Doing that to someone who is your son and adores you is really sad
But well, no way I was gonna give up on Valeria
37 diplo and attractive... Even with the -10 penalty for being a woman and the lackluster husband she's going to have to settle on due to needing matrilineal marriage, she'll still be pretty much venerated by her entire fiefdom

All I've seen in this thread is you explicitly refusing to even try to deal with factions with the tools at your disposal.

Vassal management simply doesn't work the same as it did without Conclave, and this is not necessarily a bad thing. As others have said, faction behavior is perfectly sensible with favors taken into account, and makes for a far more interesting system than the unrealistic positive opinion spam you can do as a powerful emperor.

You don't seem to have made this thread with any interest in figuring out how to deal with this situation, you just want us to sympathize with your refusal to use the tools the game gives you. I don't.

And don't come back and try and say you're complaining about gamey and unrealistic mechanics, because look what you did to get your daughter on the throne.

 

[Akka le Vil]

All I've seen in this thread is you explicitly refusing to even try to deal with factions with the tools at your disposal.

[...]

You don't seem to have made this thread with any interest in figuring out how to deal with this situation, you just want us to sympathize with your refusal to use the tools the game gives you. I don't.

Good call, I didn't make the thread to figure out how to deal with factions, I made the thread to point at how retarded they are at the moment - I think it was pretty clear by reading the title and the first post.

I've no interest in "learning to deal" with broken mechanisms giving stupid results : I'm neither a playtester nor a sycophant, my duty is to have fun when playing, not trying to figure how to win without having fun. Duh. If a functionnality annoys me I mod it out - I prefer not to do it because it breaks the balance of the game, but when it makes the game unfun I don't feel some sort of magical obligation to continue to endure it.

All the forum warriors trying to shame others into playing their way won't make me like Conclave and its fucktarded shattered retreat and its idiotic infamy and its broken factions (and while the education system isn't bad, I find it less rewarding than the event-based previous one, so even that isn't a plus). You're happy with them, good for you, but BREAKING NEWS it doesn't mean your opinion is universal.

 

[clockworkBabbag]

Good call, I didn't make the thread to figure out how to deal with factions, I made the thread to point at how retarded they are at the moment - I think it was pretty clear by reading the title and the first post.

I've no interest in "learning to deal" with broken mechanisms giving stupid results : I'm neither a playtester nor a sycophant, my duty is to have fun when playing, not trying to figure how to win without having fun. Duh. If a functionnality annoys me I mod it out - I prefer not to do it because it breaks the balance of the game, but when it makes the game unfun I don't feel some sort of magical obligation to continue to endure it.

All the forum warriors trying to shame others into playing their way won't make me like Conclave and its fucktarded shattered retreat and its idiotic infamy and its broken factions (and while the education system isn't bad, I find it less rewarding than the event-based previous one, so even that isn't a plus). You're happy with them, good for you, but BREAKING NEWS it doesn't mean your opinion is universal.

And your whining isn't a universal opinion either. You made a pointless thread to complain about game behavior that's entirely your fault for not dealing with, not the fault of the game. You have all the tools you need to deal with it.

Don't pretend you have any legitimate criticisms about how the faction system is unrealistic or unimmersive - that went out the window the minute you bragged about how you got your daughter on the throne.

 

[Akka le Vil]

Seems you're unable to understand a point and are more interested into looking for a fight. Guess it fits the whole Internet Forum Warrior archetype. Well, I'm not really interested in that, so yay have fun banging your chest ?

 

[TheDungen]

All I've seen in this thread is you explicitly refusing to even try to deal with factions with the tools at your disposal.

Vassal management simply doesn't work the same as it did without Conclave, and this is not necessarily a bad thing. As others have said, faction behavior is perfectly sensible with favors taken into account, and makes for a far more interesting system than the unrealistic positive opinion spam you can do as a powerful emperor.

You don't seem to have made this thread with any interest in figuring out how to deal with this situation, you just want us to sympathize with your refusal to use the tools the game gives you. I don't.

And don't come back and try and say you're complaining about gamey and unrealistic mechanics, because look what you did to get your daughter on the throne.

Well not perfectly sensible, the AI still acts on a moment to moment basis. For an example my heir just led a faction to increase council power. Despite it obviously not being in his interest to weaken a crown he'll inherit in a decade or so.
Also lumping all vassals in as wanting more council power is counter intuitive because throughout history we've seen that the lower nobles have actually wanted a powerful monarch to keep the powerful nobles in check and thus usually supported the monarchy while the more powerful nobles are the ones who have tried to depower the monarch.

I said as much when they first announced the features, there should be two different scales, centralization of power (by a better name of course) which limits how much power the centralized government (the council and the monarch) have over the provinces, and council power which regulates how that power is distributed between the monarch and the council. Having a complex system where any character can gain from "Playing the game" is a much better idea than just a dualist monarch versus vassals separation of interests.

Also favours should be much better worked into the game, with more stuff, including events, should have the option to get you favour, and many more ways to spend favour. Not to mention being able to refuse some favours at a harsh penatly.

But while it is by no means perfect the game is a lot better post conclave than before it. The only part i'm not thrilled about is the coalitions, I would much rather have seen a more organic and less binary system where the AI actually took the strenght and threat of it's neighbours into account when chosing who to ally.

 

[Yeekim]

Also lumping all vassals in as wanting more council power is counter intuitive because throughout history we've seen that the lower nobles have actually wanted a powerful monarch to keep the powerful nobles in check and thus usually supported the monarchy while the more powerful nobles are the ones who have tried to depower the monarch.

Well, barons don't faction, do they?

But while it is by no means perfect the game is a lot better post conclave than before it. The only part i'm not thrilled about is the coalitions, I would much rather have seen a more organic and less binary system where the AI actually took the strenght and threat of it's neighbours into account when chosing who to ally.

Indeed.

 

[yourworstnightm]

The CK2+ faction system is much better. Vanilla has Always had the problem with "My best friend shouldn't conspire against me" vs. "Factions are useless and no threat at all".

Both statements are true btw. In CK2+ it's actually hard to keep all factions happy, and Faction revolts are actually hard to defeat.

 

[Robert II]

The CK2+ faction system is much better. Vanilla has Always had the problem with "My best friend shouldn't conspire against me" vs. "Factions are useless and no threat at all".

Both statements are true btw. In CK2+ it's actually hard to keep all factions happy, and Faction revolts are actually hard to defeat.

I'm not sure if paradox even want to make factions and running an empire difficult.

 

[Iron Chariots]

I'm not sure if paradox even want to make factions and running an empire difficult.

Well, look how much people complain about factions making the game "too hard" already, or complain any time something slightly slows down the inevitable WC.

 

[Robert II]

Well, look how much people complain about factions making the game "too hard" already, or complain any time something slightly slows down the inevitable WC.

Aye thats why I think they don't want to add any kind of genuine difficulty because people love to paint the map theory chosen colour. God knows why blobbing makes an easy game a joke especially with conclave council mechanics and NAP's.