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nelden

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I'm currently Playing Godfrey of Bouillon and I’m currently Holding the kingdom of Jerusalem (Yup I went full historical while trying to achieve the “Defender of the holy Sepulchre”, now I’m going for the Deus vult achievement.) I started as Eustache since like I mentioned I was trying to get Defender of the holy Sepulchre, I first became a duke then a few years later I fabricated a claim on france and then I became the king of france, along the way I also founded the warrior philosopher bloodline as eustache. The cruzade era was announced rather late, around 1098, so Eustache 1 died and was suceeeded by Eustache 2 (Which was a mostly useless sucessor, except for his 15 stewardiship.) before the cruzades I had to revoke the republic of mallorca from badwin ( Yeah I turned him into a merchant republic and Godefrey was the successor I had to revoke the republic since I wanted to play as him, after the cruzade.) The reason that I decided to choose to play as Godfrey aside of the flavor and rp reasons there are two other simple reason 1. He has awesome stats, specially shrewd and diligent. Second and even more important: His son is a genius ( Its actually his brother, since when I was playing his father I Cucked him.) so after a successful cruzade, I transferred all of my artifacts and wealth to Godfrey , Eustache II became incapable at the end of the last battle of the cruzade, just before I transferred to Godfrey all of the gold that I got with the cruzade and all of my artifacts, wich where the crown jewels, a book of war and some religious artifacts. After that I started to play as eustache as the king of Jerusalem, I spent most of my first year passing laws, setting ambitions and getting an alliance with milan and with Saxony(Since nobody else wants to ally to me or cant ally to me cuz I only have 2 sons or cuz they are out of diplorange) after that my brother died, and left france for his 8 years old (Mediocre) son. So I decided to press a claim war, I called both Saxony and Millan, and I will hire some mercs as well send my troops to france. I doubt my nephew will resist the attack as I belive his troops must be still crippled by the crusade and his regency. Now some of the more Hardcore players might say that I should have not done that because this takes away of the whole Cruzader state experience. However I don’t think I wont have any chance otherwhise… like I said, nobody don’t want to ally me cuz “Political concerns” or they don’t have a daughter. Also and even more important, for some reason I’m out of the diplo range of most Christians rulers, the most far Away I can go is france and the HRE, cant make deals with England, castile or Sweden , so I think my only choice was to press my claims in hopes of gaining diplo range and more importantly getting some much needed extra levies and extra income, as I doubt I will survive with only the kingdom of Jerusalem…The Fatimid sultanate looks pretty stable and ok despite it loss at the cruzade. Their decandence is only 17. While on the other hand, the Seljuk sultanate seens to be on the verge of the fall, as their decadence currently is an alarming 84( and If I want I can put a decadent caliph on the throne) So considering the current state of my campaing, I wanted to know what I should do after I conquer the kingdom of france ? Should I go on the offensive against either of the sultanates? Should I keept on the defensive until the next cruzade ? aside of those matters, I would really appreciate if any of you could just in general give me some extra advice on how to play as a crusader beneficiary. I don’t want to mess up and don’t get the empire of outtremer !


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Soladept

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Everything for the next thirty years is defense, you want to endure the round of jihads and holy wars until the next crusade, with that crusade you have the Pope swap it to Egypt and go full Selfish, this gains you the the Kingdom + new crusader vassals and cripples the Fatamids, with Egypts Levys added to Jerusalems you can fight the Seljuks, start working on Syria and Arabia via holy wars

one thing that will help your early defense is to use your exceptional relations with the Pope to get claims on your vassals land in Jerusalem, I reccomend claiming all your dukes of Ascalons land since that adds a second silk road post, and the duchys of Jerusalem + Ascalon with goood Martial gives you sizeable levy, thats usualy the core of my Outremer Demense. Vassalise the Knights Templar whenever they spawn, save all your crusade treasury for Mercs during your turtle period. if you feel like investing do it into income buildings and maybe Keeps that add levy percentage. but you always want a healthy reserve since you could easly with that massive treasury hire three + merc companys in an emergancy for swatting Jihads.

if an easy war pops up during the turtle period, take it, whenever the Muslims leave a crack in their defense always be ready to stick a knife into it and keep pushing,
 

nelden

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Everything for the next thirty years is defense, you want to endure the round of jihads and holy wars until the next crusade, with that crusade you have the Pope swap it to Egypt and go full Selfish, this gains you the the Kingdom + new crusader vassals and cripples the Fatamids, with Egypts Levys added to Jerusalems you can fight the Seljuks, start working on Syria and Arabia via holy wars

one thing that will help your early defense is to use your exceptional relations with the Pope to get claims on your vassals land in Jerusalem, I reccomend claiming all your dukes of Ascalons land since that adds a second silk road post, and the duchys of Jerusalem + Ascalon with goood Martial gives you sizeable levy, thats usualy the core of my Outremer Demense. Vassalise the Knights Templar whenever they spawn, save all your crusade treasury for Mercs during your turtle period. if you feel like investing do it into income buildings and maybe Keeps that add levy percentage. but you always want a healthy reserve since you could easly with that massive treasury hire three + merc companys in an emergancy for swatting Jihads.

if an easy war pops up during the turtle period, take it, whenever the Muslims leave a crack in their defense always be ready to stick a knife into it and keep pushing,

so a quick update regarding the current afair of states: I just won the war for france, and with the help of the pope I claimed and revoked the county and duchy of paris, as well the county of orleans and bologne. after that I defendeded and won against a holy war that was declared by the emmir of alexandria. later after that I used the create empire option and created the empire of jerusalem, I also had a daughter and managed to get an aliance with the queen of trebizond.

one year after that, I had most of my army back and I saw that the fatimids where busy atacking abyssinya . so I decided to do what you sugested and stick a knife on then with the help of the templars and my allies to have a holy war for damascus. althogh the fatimid armies came back I still managed to win against then .

now I just declared holy war on the sejulk sultanate, wich was a great moment since they are with around 95% decadence and they are already busy being atacked by the byzantine empire in another holy war. my holy war is for allepo , and my plan is to use this oportunity so after I win the war I can goble up their soon to be independent emirates before they can get united again by another sultanate. I know this might give the fatimids an oportunity for a jihad so I will avoid geting bellow 10K of gold . but I think this is the quickest way for me to expand and as you sugested stick a knife in then.
 
Last edited:

Naughtius Maximus

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No offense but can you please make some paragraphs? I got lost 10 sentences in and never recovered.

Anyhow regarding plans versus Seljuks or Fatimids. Leave them alone until you can claim their top tier title (Kingdom of Persia and Kingdom of Egypt.) If they have no other kingdom titles, when you win these claim wars you get the fearsome Mamluks (Fatimids) and Ghilman (Seljuks) mercenary companies as vassals.

This notably also applies to the Byzantines, from which you can get the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Varangian Guard as vassals. If you take their titles in any other way they are released. And since they are landless there is no way to reincorporate them as vassals easily.
 

nelden

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No offense but can you please make some paragraphs? I got lost 10 sentences in and never recovered.

Anyhow regarding plans versus Seljuks or Fatimids. Leave them alone until you can claim their top tier title (Kingdom of Persia and Kingdom of Egypt.) If they have no other kingdom titles, when you win these claim wars you get the fearsome Mamluks (Fatimids) and Ghilman (Seljuks) mercenary companies as vassals.

This notably also applies to the Byzantines, from which you can get the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Varangian Guard as vassals. If you take their titles in any other way they are released. And since they are landless there is no way to reincorporate them as vassals easily.

sorry I will try to put some extra effort and put some paragraphs, I was in a bit of a hurry.
 

nelden

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No offense but can you please make some paragraphs? I got lost 10 sentences in and never recovered.

Anyhow regarding plans versus Seljuks or Fatimids. Leave them alone until you can claim their top tier title (Kingdom of Persia and Kingdom of Egypt.) If they have no other kingdom titles, when you win these claim wars you get the fearsome Mamluks (Fatimids) and Ghilman (Seljuks) mercenary companies as vassals.

This notably also applies to the Byzantines, from which you can get the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Varangian Guard as vassals. If you take their titles in any other way they are released. And since they are landless there is no way to reincorporate them as vassals easily.

Don't you think I should weaken then and goble up at least the duchies and counties from other titles ? also I do plan to claim egypt , but I wanted to do that as being a selfish cruzader, just like someone sugested here, if I got the claim throw a cruzade, would I still get the mamluks as vassals ?

regarding the seljuk sultanate , they are honestly doomed. even if I dont do anything they are destinated to fall, since their current ruler is decadent and their decadence is 95%, the only thing I can do is to make the process of their downfall quicker.
 

Naughtius Maximus

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No if Fatimids have their top title taken the Mamluks go free. This applies to Crusades too. It is only via a claim war that you can vassalize the fearsome Mamluks. So if you have a personal claim to that title.
 

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How as a Christian are you ever able to get a claim to that title though?

2 ways:
1. Use a favor to get a marriage to the holder's daughter
2. Capture one of the holder's young kids in a siege, raise them in house arrest with Faith or Heritage focus, then release/ransom on adulthood and invite them back (or Recruit if by then the title is no longer held by their close relative)

there are others theoretically, but they're highly situational.
 

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1. Once in a blue moon rulers may allow their kids to be educated by some infidel in court (most commonly a jewish courtier.)

They're more open to marrying that kid off. The above two are less about luck.
 

nelden

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1. Once in a blue moon rulers may allow their kids to be educated by some infidel in court (most commonly a jewish courtier.)

They're more open to marrying that kid off. The above two are less about luck.
Are the mameluks really that powerfull ? are they worth all of this trouble ? I mean I'm already feeling as if I'm cheating by having france, and if the pope launches a cruzade against egypt I dont see why I should change it, I mean they would just change their primary title to kings of arabia anyway right ? I dont think it is worth to wait a lot for the oportunity of convincing the daughter of the caliph to marry me. just seens to be too much trouble btw I already did those things but stil... like I said it tends to be too troublesome.
 

nelden

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This is the update of how things are right now, also another thing that I got lucky. the old fatimid caliph got assassinated and on his place his 6 year old imbecile son is the caliph now.man I'm surprisingly lucky lmao.
 

Naughtius Maximus

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Are the mameluks really that powerfull ? are they worth all of this trouble ? I mean I'm already feeling as if I'm cheating by having france, and if the pope launches a cruzade against egypt I dont see why I should change it, I mean they would just change their primary title to kings of arabia anyway right ? I dont think it is worth to wait a lot for the oportunity of convincing the daughter of the caliph to marry me. just seens to be too much trouble btw I already did those things but stil... like I said it tends to be too troublesome.

If he already has both titles to his name then go ahead. If he only has Egypt after successful Crusade his realm will shatter, freeing the Mamluks.

Also at your size the Mamluks are not worthwhile for anything except collection purposes. Earlier on they are substantially large and help suppress factions, or win civil wars, depending if you want to keep them on the field all the time like retinues.
 

nelden

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If he already has both titles to his name then go ahead. If he only has Egypt after successful Crusade his realm will shatter, freeing the Mamluks.

Also at your size the Mamluks are not worthwhile for anything except collection purposes. Earlier on they are substantially large and help supress factions.
yup, its kinda ironic because earlier on I was just the kingdoom of jerusalem but throw mercenaries and the oportunity of my nephew regency I managed to unite jerusalem and france. like I said some people might consider this cheating but I belive that I had not much choice as jerusalem except to press my claim on my nephew. after all I'm surrounded by two giant caliphates that could jihad me at any moment, and honestly I doubt that most cristians would come to my defense or if they came it would be just too late already. I almost lost the holy war to alexandria earlier while I was fighting my nephew on france, and no christian ruler came to help me. only 2 years after they started to show interest in joining my war so yeah. but like You said maximus, by the poin that I have egypt and that I conquer their last title the mamluks will be nothing more than something for collection purpose.