I just got Crusader Kings II, and...

[Extreme Unction]

Okay, so.

I'm playing the Caliph of Baghdad, a six-province "duchy" in the greater Seljuk Empire. I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm muddling through.

I had my Vizier fabricate a claim on a nearby county that wasn't part of the Seljuk empire. Then I marched troops in to grab it.

After receiving the territory, I found a dude who was the mayor of a town in one of my counties. He looked like he'd make a pretty good ruler, so I granted him the Landed Title of Beylik of the newly conquered territory.

Only he's not the Bey. He's a Wali. Instead of the title Beylik of Rafha, he's now the Wali of the Grand City of Rafha. And he's still the mayor of the old city. And when I mouse over the picture of the Grand City of Rafha, it tells me "Holder is of the wrong Holding type".

So...what did I do? And how do I fix it?

 

[cyrileom]

You gave a mayor a county. This turns him into a county level mayor. Just because he gets a new level of land does not mean he will give away his old holding. Actually, his previous mayoral holding will actually be county capital (I think). The way to fix this is to revoke the county of whatever from him, and then grant it to a baron. This resets it to a standard feudal county. In fact, I think it might be possible to give it to the former Wali, because now he will be a Beylik as his only holding is a barony.

 

[justin6477]

You gave a mayor a county. This turns him into a county level mayor. Just because he gets a new level of land does not mean he will give away his old holding. Actually, his previous mayoral holding will actually be county capital (I think). The way to fix this is to revoke the county of whatever from him, and then grant it to a baron. This resets it to a standard feudal county. In fact, I think it might be possible to give it to the former Wali, because now he will be a Beylik as his only holding is a barony.

Pretty much it. If you give counties to Mayors, they become Grand-Mayors (basically feudal republics a la Genoa and Venice). If Christian, you can do the same with Bishops to make them Prince-Bishops. However, you can't do this as a Muslim since Bishoprics are valid holdings for a regular, feudal Muslim lord. All you'll do is change the county capital.

 

[Extreme Unction]

You gave a mayor a county. This turns him into a county level mayor. Just because he gets a new level of land does not mean he will give away his old holding. Actually, his previous mayoral holding will actually be county capital (I think). The way to fix this is to revoke the county of whatever from him, and then grant it to a baron. This resets it to a standard feudal county. In fact, I think it might be possible to give it to the former Wali, because now he will be a Beylik as his only holding is a barony.

Yeah, once I revoked his old city title, leaving him with just the county, he became a Bey instead of a Wali.

Of course, he hates my guts now, too. Weird reaction to a promotion.

 

[justin6477]

Yeah, once I revoked his old city title, leaving him with just the county, he became a Bey instead of a Wali.

Of course, he hates my guts now, too. Weird reaction to a promotion.

Hover over the opinion to find out the maluses and bonuses to opinions. Maybe your character has loads of traits he hates? He should have a "granted land" bonus, but there'll also be a "wrong liege type" opinion malus. Republic vassals mint money, but they tend to be pretty rebellious. Republics also have a coastal invasion CB, so there's a chance he'll grab all the coastal territory from your other vassals.

 

[Extreme Unction]

Hover over the opinion to find out the maluses and bonuses to opinions. Maybe your character has loads of traits he hates? He should have a "granted land" bonus, but there'll also be a "wrong liege type" opinion malus. Republic vassals mint money, but they tend to be pretty rebellious. Republics also have a coastal invasion CB, so there's a chance he'll grab all the coastal territory from your other vassals.

The biggest penalty is "revoked landed title" for -80 points.

Seems I can revoke his new title and make him just a mayor again. Or I can revoke his old title and make him a Bey. Or I can do nothing and let him hold both titles, with (apparently) a tax penalty for the new county.

 

[justin6477]

The biggest penalty is "revoked landed title" for -80 points.

Seems I can revoke his new title and make him just a mayor again. Or I can revoke his old title and make him a Bey. Or I can do nothing and let him hold both titles, with (apparently) a tax penalty for the new county.

Not how it works. Now that the Town is the county capitol, you'll get a county with said town as the capitol. The Barony will have been given away to an vassal of his. You'll have to do a double revocation to get the county back to a regular feudal holding, or give the county to the baron.

 

[SRM]

Nobles hate giving up any scrap of land no matter how much stuff you give them in exchange. Hand some guy a Kingdom within your Empire? He'll still hate your guts and possibly rebel if you try to take away the Barony he owns within one of your Counties.

 

[Typee]

Nobles hate giving up any scrap of land no matter how much stuff you give them in exchange. Hand some guy a Kingdom within your Empire? He'll still hate your guts and possibly rebel if you try to take away the Barony he owns within one of your Counties.

An option to "switch" titles would be nice indeed.
Didn't this actually happen sometimes?
As in "yoh, Count, I need you to take care of the border with the infidel so you will move your shit to the castle I have there."

 

[Jeltz]

An option to "switch" titles would be nice indeed.
Didn't this actually happen sometimes?
As in "yoh, Count, I need you to take care of the border with the infidel so you will move your shit to the castle I have there."

I have thought of the same thing. To me it seems you should be able to offer a trade. So while nobles should generally hate to give up their ancestral lands, if they like you and the new title is good they should accept. Of course only if it is historical that such trades took place.

 

[Kyle Lionheart]

I'm pretty sure that feudal lords, in particular, would be *very* reluctant to give up any kind of land, as they would consider it the personal property of them and their family, not of their liege. Perhaps a major or bishop would accept the exchange without much fuss, as long as he keeps at least the same rank...since theirs are appointed, nonhereditary positions anyway, but a lord? I don't think so.

 

[Extreme Unction]

Okay, as per usual with Paradox games, I keep running into unintended consequences of my actions.

Playing a Muslim, I have that Decadence Meter to worry about. It got up to 30%, so I wanted to reduce it. I revoked the title of one of my sheikhs, then granted the sheikhdom to one of my kids. My eldest was heir, and I didn't want to give him the title, because he'd just end up being Caliph some day. So I farmed it out to my youngest son.

And now, completely unexpectedly, my youngest son is now my heir.

1) Why did that happen?

2) Is there any way to fix it?

 

[Ahaz Flagg]

In Muslim Nations, the stongest son, ie with most titles inherit, to fix revoke and give to the one you want to inherit.

 

[Jeltz]

One problem with as a Muslim granting landed titles to your sons is that your grandchildren will also generate decadence when they grow up. One of the best ways to solve this is to either assassinate your children before they grow up or imprison your more distant relatives as soon as you can. I think all the imprisonments breaks immersion when playing Muslim. There should be better ways to handle decadence. Are there any?

EDIT: Of course make sure some of your sons remain unlanded and unmarried but educated so you can use them in your council.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

There should be better ways to handle decadence. Are there any?

Have a smaller demesne than the smallest landed relative. Ramadan and stuff.

http://ckiiwiki.com/Decadence

 

[Extreme Unction]

So right now, I have de jure claims on two counties bordering my territory: Samarra and Kirkuk. Both Samarra and Kirkuk are owned by the Seljuk Empire. However, they've got their hands very full with a civil war and I'm pretty sure I could take those two territories without much trouble.

Thing is, if I start a war for Samarra, I won't be able to get Kirkuk. And if I start a war for Kirkuk, I won't be able to get Samarra.

How can I start a war and grab both of these territories at once?

 

[cyrileom]

You can't.

 

[generalolaf]

If you have sufficient cash, attack once, assassinate the current ruler of the Seljuks and attack again. The truce is against the character, not the country.

Other than that, I can't think of anything that might work.

 

[martinistripes]

Okay, as per usual with Paradox games, I keep running into unintended consequences of my actions.

This happens to me also. Perhaps a more detail is needed in the 'consequences of making this decision' box.

 

[justin6477]

Playing a Muslim, I have that Decadence Meter to worry about. It got up to 30%, so I wanted to reduce it.

25% is actually the Zero point, so 30 isn't bad at all. If you get under 25%, you start getting bonuses to morale and stuff like that.