I hope the non-Roman cultures get love too.

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AirikrStrife

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I’m sorry, but I can’t make sense of your question. There are no other cultures but Rome.

... and he who is and remains Emperor of the Romans is also the Emperor of the whole world"
 

ElectricEel

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Eh, just because other nations exist does not mean that they're been fleshed out.

Now I'm confident that Paradox will have interesting nations that are not Rome but this isn't really strong evidence in favor of it.
As I recall, in the original EU: Rome, Gaul & its vicinity on that map consisted of "uncolonized" provinces populated by generic EU-style "natives" with a few wimpy little tribal states mixed in, just there to wait for Rome to get around to colonizing them, so it looks like Paradox is at least going to clear the very low bar they set with the previous game. Gives me hope that this one will actually be good.
 

Manic Eskimo

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I'd love to help with Indian region. Studied a lot about this timeframe in India, society, the ruthless Mauryan imperial government and such.
I was just thinking how much I'm going to enjoy learning about India in this age for the first time. Am I right in thinking there was a land bridge between Ceylon and the mainland during this time. I recall some story about a king who had loads of monkeys build a bridge. But then it turns out that there was actually a land bridge. I dunno. Does that even make sense?
 

Manic Eskimo

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As I recall, in the original EU: Rome, Gaul & its vicinity on that map consisted of "uncolonized" provinces populated by generic EU-style "natives" with a few wimpy little tribal states mixed in, just there to wait for Rome to get around to colonizing them, so it looks like Paradox is at least going to clear the very low bar they set with the previous game. Gives me hope that this one will actually be good.
Aww I kind of loved that feature. A great tactic as a tribe in the mid to late game when Rome is a serious threat was to move a small stack around the barbarian provinces to aggro them. The barbarians would then snowball picking up more barbarians towards the nearest high cultured province and sieze it down meaning Rome had to send it's armies away from sieging down your provinces to deal with the barbarian threats. Those barbarian hordes were no joke.
 

AirikrStrife

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Speaking of Seleukids, given that Lysimachus ralms is "Thrace", We can assume Ptolomy will rule Egypt. Should the Seleukid empire be named that? Or should they be called Babylonia or Syria? Personally not a fan of these sort of names (Seleukid, Timurid etc)
 

Thure

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Will Steel

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Am I right in thinking there was a land bridge between Ceylon and the mainland during this time.I recall some story about a king who had loads of monkeys build a bridge. But then it turns out that there was actually a land bridge. I dunno. Does that even make sense?

Yeah, it is one of the foundational mythological texts of India - Ramayan. One of the oldest intact literature in history, composed somewhere around 900 BCE, also one of the longest heroics epics in the world. And is regarded as one of the cores of Indian religion, and very influential in Indian society historically. it is literally one of the holy books in CK2 IIRC.

It is a story about a chivalric and moral Prince of Ayodhya kingdom of northern India, Rama, getting deprived of his throne and then accepting a 14-year voluntary exile to jungles of central India with his very beautiful and wise wife, Sita. And as he is loved by literally everyone, one of his four brothers comes along to help him.

As they set up a hut and live undisturbed and in peace, the king of Lanka (who has gone evil), Ravan, is flying above their hut, returning from a victory on his flying chariot. Stuff happens, Ravan sees Sita, falls for her, and wants to take her with him to Lanka. He deceives the two brothers and abducts her, takes back to Lanka. But when she doesn't marry him, he then leaves her at a walled garden in Lankapuri (the capital of Lanka), guarded by demon women with a certain honour.

Ram comes to learn of this and they march south. As they do, they encounter people, kingdoms and demons sent by Ravan. They slay the deranged monkey-king Bali of Kishkindha (outside of mythology and in reality, it was a very small southern Indian kingdom) and put his righteous and kind brother Sugriva on the throne. Sugriva repays them by allying with them and putting his entire army of monkeys at their disposal.

The monkeys of this story are not literal monkeys, they are usually presented as intelligent humanoid ape creatures who most likely wear clothes, armour, use weapons, have a kingdom and a government, and a fully fledged society just like humans. Think of them as one of those fantasy creatures found in RPGs like dragonborns, elves and the like - they are all humanoid.

They are, of course, by this time, at the coast facing Lanka. The two shores are visible from each other, just like Dover and Calais for example.

The mythological story is that Ram and his army lack boats and even if they did, storms would sink them immediately. So they sit and pray to the sea god Varun (whose mythology is not very far from Neptune/Poseidon at times BTW). Eventually one of the major advisors Jambuvant (who is also from a fantasy race) with wisdom from the Varun, orders two monkey soldiers, Nal and Neel, to write Ram's name on a stone and throw it in the water. It doesn't sink, so they begin to gather large rocks, flatten them, write Ram's name on it and place it in water. They build a line of it across the water.

The floating stone pontoon bridge is thus completed. Ram's army cross, send Ravan and Lanka into a frenzy. Many epic battles happen, lots of people die on both sides in masses. Ravan's sons and brothers are killed in succession, and he (and all his ten hocrux heads) is killed after a tough battle too. Ram places Ravan's brother on the throne, returns to Ayodhya in his flying chariot.

EpicIndia.jpg


Ram becomes king, stuff happens, he and his brothers are revealed to be mortal incarnations of Vishnu and other deities. They die and merge into their real godly states. Years pass, silt accumulates and landbridge attains its current form.

That is the mythological version. The reality might be (take this with a complete grain of salt) that when island of Lanka was likely connected much more to mainland India, and was a part of it when India was a part of Pangea supercontinent. As India drifted, it broke apart and became an island and drifted along with mainland. When India collided into Asia (then the giant Laurasia continent), the island came along too. But it slowly drifted a bit apart from mainland, leaving a debris trail of rocks.
 
Last edited:

Limak

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Do not worry plenty of DLCs to feature every important Empire the way it should be.

I predict this is going to be a big thing for Paradox. CK2 level of big.
 

Deaghaidh

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Honestly playing the "Barbarians" in EU Rome was a huge letdown. Especially if you didn't produce your own iron or wood. Then your armies are just canon fodder and you are just a placeholder until your big Civilized neighbor gets interested in you.
 

Will Steel

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What sources do we have for India in this era?

First and foremost is Arthashastra, which was written within game timeframe (and writer was a genius and alive at game's start, and practically caused the creation of Mauryan Empire). Giant political treatise on par with Machiavelli's Prince, and describing the organization and running of Mauryan empire and Indian military in detail, and laying the foundation of Indian governments for next 2,000 years.

Then there are books by Greek ambassadors to the Mauryan imperial court. Indika by Megasthenes and others for example. They wrote what they saw from Greek perspective, and only about places where they went, but still detailed enough.

There is also tablet-pillar inscriptions by Emperor Ashoka, who used the pen-name Devanampriya Priyadarshi when having the inscriptions inscribed. Rather few survive, but in many of them where he isn't preaching Buddhism, he mentions events of his life and things he regretful for, and government institutions he is using to make life better for people.

Many of these writings are confirmed by contemporary Hellenistic sources in the west. For example, Emperor Ashoka had it inscribed that he was sending an emissary to "teach the Rightful Path to King 'Tulamaya' in the west". Next year, Greek sources mention that "King Ptolemy II Philadelphus received Buddhist missionaries sent by Emperor of the Moriyas".

Many sources made their way into other Indian texts. There are texts written not long after fall of the Mauryans, but infuse them with medical science and some elements of mythology. There are also thousands of manuscripts containing texts copied from that era that haven't been cleaned and read, sitting in Indian museums.

And there are a lot more sources. For modern readership you can use Penguin History of Early India for beginning.
 

Baron_Mijail

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Oh yes they will, in fact, looking at Europa Universalis IV you should be worried of Rome getting little to no attention after release.