I hope Carthage won't be underrated

[Ccbasin]

Still cant get over the fact that they made Carthage a military republic

I thought the lands the Barca's carved out in Spain were virtually independent. That seems to me that a military republic is probably as close as they can come to showing the real political situation.

 

[Chaingun]

I guess Rome will be significantly stronger than Carthage in the game for the simple reason the AI needs to be guided towards historical results, or Paradox will have a huge riot on their hands. If Rome gets annihilated by Carthage, everything will be completely different from history, this in a game called "EU: Rome".

 

[Snall]

...I would be up in arms if that were the case. I can't think of many games i've had in EU series where results have been all THAT historical. *shrug* But Rome will stay around by the simple expedient that it starts in most scenarios as a major player. Whose to say Rome and Carthage won't be allies and split the Med in half? (That's what i'd do if playing with people.._ *shrug*

 

[unmerged(7537)]

I thought the lands the Barca's carved out in Spain were virtually independent. That seems to me that a military republic is probably as close as they can come to showing the real political situation.

I don't think Carthago ever maintained a particularly tight grip on its colonies, except in the economic sphere.

Um, no. That is part of the reason for the Carthaginian defeat in the 2nd Punic War, however every account of that time indicates through simple logic that Rome had a far greater and more dependable pool of manpower than Carthage did. Carthage relied upon mercenaries for a reason.

Most Carthagian "mercenaries" in the 2nd Punic War were either recruited from allied tribes in Iberia, Lybia, or Numidia. This is not particularly different from the way the Romans bolstered their own forces with Italian allies.

 

[The Phoenician]

I thought the lands the Barca's carved out in Spain were virtually independent. That seems to me that a military republic is probably as close as they can come to showing the real political situation.

Exactly. Almost all the time the 2nd punic war was Barcid Family vs Mighty Rome

 

[Swamp Rat]

I thought the lands the Barca's carved out in Spain were virtually independent. That seems to me that a military republic is probably as close as they can come to showing the real political situation.

Exactly. Almost all the time the 2nd punic war was Barcid Family vs Mighty Rome

I am aware that the Second Punic war was an affair that was mostly handled by Hannibal who several times disregarded orders from Carthage itself. But the actual official government of Carthage was still the rule of the rich families in Carthage however emasculated it was at the time. It seems to me that the character system in the game is perfectly able to simulate one character getting a great amount of power in the nations provinces and are able to act somewhat independently of an actual government without having to cut corners by actually changing the government to something it wasnt historically.

 

[unmerged(70654)]

I guess Rome will be significantly stronger than Carthage in the game for the simple reason the AI needs to be guided towards historical results, or Paradox will have a huge riot on their hands. If Rome gets annihilated by Carthage, everything will be completely different from history, this in a game called "EU: Rome".

It wasn't a impossible scenario for Carthage to annhiliate Rome - Hannibal besieged Rome and if his brother Hasdrubal had met with him and brought siege engines, or if mainland Carthage had sent reinforcements instead of cutting him off, it would have been GG for Rome. Pyrrhus of Epirus had also nearly come to destroy Rome in previous years, the Romans again won just barely, and came to the verge of complete defeat.

Contrary to popular opinion Rome was a fledgling state during the Punic Wars - Macedon, the Seleucid Kingdom and Carthage were the main powers in the Mediteranian until the battle of Pydna where Rome exerted its strength and showed it take on the Macedonian phalanx. It wasn't until the complete destruction of Carthage until Rome was taken seriously by the Diadochi (Alexander's succesors).

It was the arrogance and political disunity of Carthage which lead to Rome surviving the Punic Wars, not military power, empire or economics.

The Romans learned a lot of lessons the hard way through fighting Carthage - including how to combat phalanxes, survive elephant charges, deal with light cavalry (Numidians), fight on the sea (stealing the Carthaginian Quinrereme design and inventing the Corvus to board ships) and pick their fights wisely.

Before the Punic Wars Rome was a fledgling state of no signifigance which was considered on par with the many dozens of other Greek city states nearby.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

Before the Punic Wars Rome was a fledgling state of no signifigance which was considered on par with the many dozens of other Greek city states nearby.

Except that before the Punic Wars, Rome had already conquered all of those "other Greek city states nearby" i.e. on the Italian mainland. Keep in mind, the 1st Punic War started because Rome was expanding into Sicily. They had ceased to be a purely regional power with the defeat of Pyrrhus and the conquest of Greek Italy.

 

[lwarmonger]

Most Carthagian "mercenaries" in the 2nd Punic War were either recruited from allied tribes in Iberia, Lybia, or Numidia. This is not particularly different from the way the Romans bolstered their own forces with Italian allies.

Difference is in percentages. Most of their armies in Africa were comprised of Numidian and Libyan mercenaries as well... Rome used mercenaries as an auxiliary to a sizable core of Roman and Italian legions. Carthage in most theaters used mercenaries as the bulk of their army.

 

[Snall]

Did they even raise Italian legions yet? God I need to brush up on my Roman his.

 

[unmerged(47135)]

Did they even raise Italian legions yet? God I need to brush up on my Roman his.

He was bargaining on various Italian states subjected to Roman rule rising against them. And they didn't, but stuck to Rome through the conflict, which was a big upset to his plans. Afaik only the Gauls in northern Italy joined him against Rome.

 

[Kelthar]

He was bargaining on various Italian states subjected to Roman rule rising against them. And they didn't, but stuck to Rome through the conflict, which was a big upset to his plans. Afaik only the Gauls in northern Italy joined him against Rome.

Actually, several of the Italian cities in the south such as Capua, defected to him after the battle of Cannae.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Interresting, I wonder if provinces or provincial governors might defect during a war, and what would it mean? Rebels popping up in defecting provinces? The provinces become useless? (no manpower or taxes until war is resolved) Or the province that defect automatically become occupied by hte enemy, and perhaps even soldiers raised in that province defect to the enemy.