I heard you like Damage.

[oopsione]

So i put some Damage in your Damage.
Tech 6 Mamluks to Tech 7, no damage modifiers, no morale or discipline advisors, just drilled jannisaries. Battle started with 24k against 18.

 

[Sfan]

I don't understand what we are supposed to see actually.

 

[oopsione]

Its just an answer to all these "Ottomans are so overnerfed they get stomped by everyone" threads.
Grab Janissaries ( i have two armies of it) drill them, be happy about 50 profesionalism and full drilled army in 20 years. edit: I dont have any regular units in the jannisary block to use the full advantage of the damage modifiers and drilling. Regular troops for sieging only.
Went quantity first, with the buffed up Constantinople and the new Jannisaries Ottomans feel even stronger now. Completely stackwiping armies bigger then you without any ideas wasnt that possible before.

 

[Ultima_Ratio]

You have better tech, a better general, more cavalry, rolled 9 on a shock-phase... seems pretty standard if you ask me.

 

[Rainbow Mirage]

With drilling i'd guess Ming is a beast now. What with them getting free manpower from tributaries and they still have a strong economy for a massive army.

 

[oopsione]

You have better tech, a better general, more cavalry, rolled 9 on a shock-phase... seems pretty standard if you ask me.

Doing tripple the damage is all but standard, the other 2 hits i did 1,5k and 1,6k damage. Dont forget i started with 6k less troops and the crossing river modifier.
The difference between Tech 6 and 7 are marginal whats really coming into point here is the 10% Damage modifier from Jannisaries, the 10% modifier from being 100% drilled (decays with reinforcements) and the 6% damage modifier from 60% profassionalism i had at this point. And of course the way better Unit Pips per units.
You can even wipe the floor on plains against hordes with full drilled jannies. The amount of damage they can take and dish out is pretty ridiculous.

Been trying around with ideas and seems like Quantity seems the way to go first for Ottomans, with the buffed up Dev and the OP Constantinople after you get the Gemsmodifier you can easily afford 40+ Jannisaries to keep your Army Prof at 100% all the time.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

Ottoman armies are pure quality right now. My first CoC game is Castile into Spain, and one of the first major wars I fought was the Ottomans to spit our Byzantium. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest when I say I had:

Tech Advantage, 9>8
Moral Advantage, Castilian Traditions+Higher prestige
Discipline advantage, Offensive finisher+ Discipline Adviser
Overall Tactics advantage, Tech+Disc
More men, same cav, 2 less artillery at the start of the fight. I was at CW, they started just shy so I had several turns of flanking.
More reinforcments
Better general, I had one more shock, he had one more fire.
No terrain bonus either way.

I lost two battles in a row like this, and neither one was even close. I ran both times when I realized the fight was lost, but my men were slaughtered. Me, my allies and subjects lost 10k each battle to the Ottomans 3.5K and 4K. I won the war in the end, but mostly due to The Ottomans running out of manpower after that second battle. I declared war right after they kicked in the Mamluks teeth. I expected it to be the easiest war I've ever had with them by a long shot. It wasn't the hardest, but pound for pound they fought better than I've ever seen in this game before all without any military ideas. They went trade, then admin and it showed because I spent quite a while squashing mercs so they couldn't group back up.

I wound up winning the war, then the next and the next, but I wont underestimate them again this patch.

 

[I'm gaming]

1. Ottoman's unique bonuses and starting condition becomes worsre, compared to 1.22.

2. Great countries under player's hand become stronger.

2 is greater than 1. So Ottoman under AI's control becomes weaker, but Ottoman under player's control becomes stronger. I don't understand the reason why they did like this. The game becomes a lot easier when player plays as great country.

Doing tripple the damage is all but standard, the other 2 hits i did 1,5k and 1,6k damage.

As wiki, you get 10 pip and Mamluk gets 5. This means that you get 65 base damage and Mamluk gets 40 base damage. 65 damage of yours is increased by 1.05 by your discipline, 40 damage of Mamluk is reduced by approximately 24% by your tactic, and then your damage becomes twice bigger than that of Mamluk. Also, strengths of each regiment of Mamluk are less than yours. In addition, there are Janissary bonuses which becomes weaker than 1.22 and drilling/professionalism bonuses which are gotten easier under player's control. Tripple is not that great.

 

[oopsione]

The jannissary bonuses are definitly not weaker then 1.22. 5% disc and 10 inf. combat ability. I'd rather prefer 20% more damage and receiving 20% less damage to that. Especially since its to both fire and shock. The only thing that got worse now are artillery and cav since they profited from the 5% disc. But your jannissary infantry is way stronger than before.

Dont forget the buffs to islam aswell, you can boost up those modifier even higher.

 

[I'm gaming]

The jannissary bonuses are definitly not weaker then 1.22. 5% disc and 10 inf. combat ability. I'd rather prefer 20% more damage and receiving 20% less damage to that. Especially since its to both fire and shock. The only thing that got worse now are artillery and cav since they profited from the 5% disc. But your jannissary infantry is way stronger than before.

No. Janissary gets -10% damage received, which is similar with +10% ICA before. Though it has +100% drilling speed, it doesn't mean that it has +10% damage dealt and damage received. Other infantries can drill, but slower than Jannisary. Considering decisions which give you +40% drilling speed, Jannisary doesn't get more than approximately +4% damage dealt and received than ordinary infantry and that +4% scales down to 0, so that it isn't that much. Averagely, Jannisary seems to get 1% more damage dealt and recieved compared to ordinary infantry. +5% discipline is surely better.

 

[flogi]

People don't seem to realize how good the damage and damage_received modifiers are compared to diszi.
10% of either damage or received modifier roughly equal 3.5 discipline (yes I tested this and I did so without rolls).
This essentially means that a drilled janissary army is much much stronger than the old janissary bonus (if you include overall professionalism as well).

 

[I'm gaming]

People don't seem to realize how good the damage and damage_received modifiers are compared to diszi.
10% of either damage or received modifier roughly equal 3.5 discipline (yes I tested this and I did so without rolls).

10% damage dealt or received is similar with 3.5% discipline? I thought that it is similar with 5%.

This essentially means that a drilled janissary army is much much stronger than the old janissary bonus (if you include overall professionalism as well)

Well, ordinary infantry with full drilling and professionalism is stronger than old Jannisary, and drilling is easily removed after a couple of pierce battles.

 

[creativitypersonified]

10% damage dealt or received is similar with 3.5% discipline? I thought that it is similar with 5%.


Well, ordinary infantry with full drilling and professionalism is stronger than old Jannisary, and drilling is easily removed after a couple if pierce battles.

10% discipline = 10% schock damage received+dealt + 20% fire damage received+dealt + 10% morale damage dealt thats why its a little less than 5

 

[I'm gaming]

10% discipline = 10% schock damage received+dealt + 20% fire damage received+dealt + 10% morale damage dealt thats why its a little less than 5

ArmyA = Received
(Damage of B) / (Tactic of A).

ArmyB = Recevied
(Damage of A) / (Tactic of B).

Morale damage received is 1/60.


If there is +10% discipline for ArmyA:

ArmyA = Received
(Damage of B) / (Tactic of A*1.1).

ArmyB = Recevied
(Damage of A*1.1) / (Tactic of B).

Isn't it?

 

[creativitypersonified]

ArmyA = Received
(Damage of B) / (Tactic of A).

ArmyB = Recevied
(Damage of A) / (Tactic of B).

Morale damage received is 1/60.


If there is +10% discipline for ArmyA:

ArmyA = Received
(Damage of B) / (Tactic of A*1.1).

ArmyB = Recevied
(Damage of A*1.1) / (Tactic of B).

Isn't it?

The base of this is right however if army A has 10% discipline then the morale damage the opponent will receive would be multiplied by 1.1.

 

[I'm gaming]

The base of this is right however if army A has 10% discipline then the morale damage the opponent will receive would be multiplied by 1.1.

Yes, but isn't damage received or damage dealt applied to morale damage? If not, how about combat ability?

 

[creativitypersonified]

Yes, but isn't damage received or damage dealt applied to morale damage? If not, how about combat ability?

I am not sure but i think that damage dealt and received are irrelevant of morale damage. They only affect how many casualties you inflict. Of course the number of casualties then proceeds to affect the morale

 

[Pile_O_Gunz]

Ottomans don't seem weak to me. They had mil tech 7 whilst everyone was still tech 5 thanks to decades of 6/4/6 ruler.
They also managed to beat my Mamelukes through sheer manpower an I don't get caught out easily these days.