I heard there was going to be a multiplayer game livestreamed soon...

[misterbean]

And yet right after the war, everyone agreed that the German campaigns in Poland and the West were won, largely through air power.
The D-day landings worked because German air supremacy had completely disappeared.

 

[Invader_Canuck]

And yet right after the war, everyone agreed that the German campaigns in Poland and the West were won, largely through air power.
The D-day landings worked because German air supremacy had completely disappeared.

Germany hadn't had air supremacy for a long time. Germany didn't lose because it couldn't contend with the planes in the air. It lost because boots on the ground came and physically defeated them.

Airpower on its own is almost ineffective. The most effective form of airpower in WW2 was CAS for the allies. You don't get CAS without boots on the ground.

Airpower is effective and dominating at the tactical level, as part of combined arms. Not on its on.

 

[rainchild33082]

I'm concerned that air power is being over modeled. It's a debate EVEN TODAY if air power alone is capable of winning a war.

Ask Iraq if a war can be won by airpower alone. Iraq war 1 was said to be won solely in the first week of the campaign. Having boots on the ground was just for mop up

 

[Andaries]

I'm concerned that air power is being over modeled. It's a debate EVEN TODAY if air power alone is capable of winning a war.

Not really debatable. Strategic bombing as the only means to force a country into submission or surrender has never worked with out the use of nuclear weapons. Their is not a single conflict ever won were one side only used its Air force.

Only with the invention of Nuclear bombs did the idea actually become feasible.

Ask Iraq if a war can be won by airpower alone. Iraq war 1 was said to be won solely in the first week of the campaign. Having boots on the ground was just for mop up

No Desert shield softened the Iraqis but didn't remove them from Kuwait it took the US Army with Operation Desert Storm.

2nd edit: Also in Desert Storm was the last time the US Army had an armored tank battle with another countries tanks. In Desert Storm US faced a decent amount of hardware and troops. (they weren't that good and Iraq lost every fire fight but to say their was no real conflict in Kuwait when US rolled into the area is not true picture to what took place in Desert Storm.)

 

[rainchild33082]

As far as WW2 I don't think a war could be won strictly with airpower. But now I believe it can

 

[Kadanz]

Ask Iraq if a war can be won by airpower alone. Iraq war 1 was said to be won solely in the first week of the campaign. Having boots on the ground was just for mop up

err... what? WWII and the war in iraq are totally different things. The technological difference is too big to even come close to comparing those 2.

 

[fabius]

err... what? WWII and the war in iraq are totally different things. The technological difference is too big to even come close to comparing those 2.

Yep, and the terrain played a role too. That said, even in Iraq air power alone was not enough. Oh, and if we look at a hypothetical clash over Ukraine; then total Air Supremacy would not be guaranteed with the level of Russian AA.

 

[Centurion1973]

Yep, and the terrain played a role too. That said, even in Iraq air power alone was not enough. Oh, and if we look at a hypothetical clash over Ukraine; then total Air Supremacy would not be guaranteed with the level of Russian AA.

AA is even more vulnerable to modern weapons than aircraft are to AA. Good example was Operation Mole Cricket 19, which eliminated whole SAM network (25 batteries), with minimal losses. IAF also destroyed syrian reactor (Operation Orchard) without any losses in 2007. So, a well prepared modern Air Force can deal with modern integrated air defense systems.

While i agree, that air force cannot win the war alone (unless enemy isnt willing to continue war at high economical price), it can significantly degrade enemy armed forces, economy and infrastructure.

 

[Victor Cortez]

While i agree, that air force cannot win the war alone (unless enemy isnt willing to continue war at high economical price), it can significantly degrade enemy armed forces, economy and infrastructure.

This.

 

[fabius]

AA is even more vulnerable to modern weapons than aircraft are to AA. Good example was Operation Mole Cricket 19, which eliminated whole SAM network (25 batteries), with minimal losses. IAF also destroyed syrian reactor (Operation Orchard) without any losses in 2007. So, a well prepared modern Air Force can deal with modern integrated air defense systems.

While i agree, that air force cannot win the war alone (unless enemy isnt willing to continue war at high economical price), it can significantly degrade enemy armed forces, economy and infrastructure.

Iraq and Syria did not have S300 or S400; or BUKs, let alone in significant numbers.... but we drift off... ok Air Superiority is important, just overstated so many times, especially in WW2.

 

[misterbean]

Germany hadn't had air supremacy for a long time. Germany didn't lose because it couldn't contend with the planes in the air. It lost because boots on the ground came and physically defeated them.

Airpower on its own is almost ineffective. The most effective form of airpower in WW2 was CAS for the allies. You don't get CAS without boots on the ground.

Airpower is effective and dominating at the tactical level, as part of combined arms. Not on its on.

Nothing wins wars on its own.

 

[Axe99]

Either way, given the game is in alpha (at which stage of alpha we'll likely find out later), it's probably a bit early to get worried about specific levels of balance between different types of units/air/land/sea. There'll be a lot of balancing to happen yet.

 

[henzington]

Beta at least for many companies is when balance issues are addressed. Alpha is about getting the features of the game completed.

 

[Samman666]

Apparently, Quill will be uploading his impressions and maybe some game footage/screenshots on Monday.

It's so close I can almost taste it.

 

[henzington]

I am tempted to disagree you over that creepy gif but I will resist.

 

[Victor Cortez]

I wonder whether they will be able to talk about things we don't know anything about, such as the supply system.
Hopefully they will not have to stick to what's already been presented in the DDs.

 

[mursolini]

Well, I sure hope we are not getting into HOI3 ridiculous level of air power dominance, when it takes 2 month to bomb Britain(or Germany) into stone age, and keep it there.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

Of course no one will win a real war with air power alone... not if the intention is to occupy a sovereign soil. In order to occupy an opponents soil you will need forces on the ground to control it, air power will not give you that ability.

Air power can however make sure that your ground troops are more or less assured to win and keep losses to a minimum. Certain campaigns such as Dessert Storm would most likely have failed unless the air domination had not been so total... countries such as the US would never had accepted the losses in human life to that extent.

Is it possible to use air power to bomb a nation into total submission so they surrender without the use of ground forces... perhaps... it is theoretically possible but not very likely.

The Germans in WWII would never have been able to defeat both Poland and France so quickly and with such few losses if they had not had the air force that they did and able to use it in they way they did. WWII would most likely have ended in the same way that WWI ended without the overwhelming power of the early Luftwaffe.

 

[Pashahlis]

I dont care about Quill18s Impressions. He never played HOI more than 50 hours. He cant give an impression of a game he never really played. He has one letsplay with 10 videos about Republican Spain....

If he would give his impressions about EU5, i would care. But not HOI4.

And now attack me for my opinion....

 

[Vonboe]

I dont care about Quill18s Impressions. He never played HOI more than 50 hours. He cant give an impression of a game he never really played. He has one letsplay with 10 videos about Republican Spain....

If he would give his impressions about EU5, i would care. But not HOI4.

And now attack me for my opinion....

Hehe I guess I'm worse than you, I don't care for any let's-player/Youtuber