I have 2 kingdoms now - too many vassals and over Desmense - help

[jpinard]

I am the kingdom of Burgundy and I just acquired the kingdom of Aquitaine. I wasn't expecting it, but apparently I was voted in. I want to hang onto it though as my plan is to create a French empire. All of the kingdoms in Eurpope are Elective, and I still don't know how that works. Who gets to vote, and if I'm losing a vote for my preferred candidate, how do I convince others to vote for my candidate?

So the big problem I have is I am way over my vassal level. I already dropped to Medium centralization but I don't want to go down any more as I'm losing control over individual Desmse properties. I wouod also like to "unify" the two kingdoms but don't know if that's possible? So they're both under the same court? How can I rule this properly without losing all this land I've acquired?

Thanks!

 

[Zsrai]

All of the kingdoms in Eurpope are Elective, and I still don't know how that works.

First step is check the wiki. Second step is to realize that it's pretty hard to influence elections from outside of the realm, but you can always try increasing opinions.

So the big problem I have is I am way over my vassal level

You'll need to create Grand/Super Dukes basically. They may not be ideal, but keeping your realm together is usually more ideal than it breaking apart upon your death. You should make sure you don't have any direct count vassals if you can, then keep consolidating duchies as time and vassals permit.

I wouod also like to "unify" the two kingdoms but don't know if that's possible? So they're both under the same court?

I don't know what you mean by same court... they should already be under one court; yours. Unless you mean de jure drifting Aquitaine into Burgundy?

 

[jpinard]

First step is check the wiki. Second step is to realize that it's pretty hard to influence elections from outside of the realm, but you can always try increasing opinions.


You'll need to create Grand/Super Dukes basically. They may not be ideal, but keeping your realm together is usually more ideal than it breaking apart upon your death. You should make sure you don't have any direct count vassals if you can, then keep consolidating duchies as time and vassals permit.


I don't know what you mean by same court... they should already be under one court; yours. Unless you mean de jure drifting Aquitaine into Burgundy?

I meant the court for Councilors etc. when I click it, it's all blank.

What do you mean by "direct count vassal"? Does that mean a vassal who is a Count that reports just to me? If I made. Duchy, they would report to them instead of me? Should I hold any Duhcies myself? Like Provence is my seat of power, and I could create a Duchy there but I'm afraid of making. Duchy there. I'm also afraid of the losing control of succession if Dukes all get to vote.

What is a Grand Super Duke? Will all these layers drastically hurt my income? Or just a little? When do I get into the vice-something err other I keep reading about? Apparently they help with management but I can't seem to figure out how to make them.

This so much for your help Zsrai!

 

[Ragingnorman]

Keep two duchies (Grand Duke), the size of your desmense level.

Every time you increase Council's freedom, your vassal level increase by 2. Lowering your crown authority will improve your vassal level by 5 and reduce your demense level by 1.

Don't create vassal Grand Dukes unless you are confident that you can deal with the inevitable revolts (they probably will outweight you, given the situation you described).

Try to go Imperial ASAP, also try to switch to anything unrelated to Gavelkind/Elective ASAP (Primogeniture and Ultimogeniture are more stabe in these kind of situations).

 

[Zsrai]

I meant the court for Councilors etc. when I click it, it's all blank.

You should only have 1 Council, regardless of how many titles you have. Did Aquitaine change to be your primary title? That may have done something funky, but you should have all of your same councilors as you did as the King of Burgundy.

What do you mean by "direct count vassal"? Does that mean a vassal who is a Count that reports just to me? If I made. Duchy, they would report to them instead of me? Should I hold any Duhcies myself? Like Provence is my seat of power, and I could create a Duchy there but I'm afraid of making. Duchy there. I'm also afraid of the losing control of succession if Dukes all get to vote.

I mean a count that answers directly to you, yes. If you made a Duchy, and transferred them under said Duchy, then they would answer to the Duke. There really isn't any reason to not hold your capital duchy yourself. Not having Dukes is what is causing you to go so far over your demesne limit; you need to choose between Elective control and having your realm potentially break up, or losing Elective control (but not necessarily the election) and keeping the realm together.

What is a Grand Super Duke?

That's just a Duke with more than 1 Duchy held. They actually get a bonus demesne limit for being a Grand Duke.

When do I get into the vice-something err other I keep reading about? Apparently they help with management but I can't seem to figure out how to make them.

You get them based on your laws and Legalism.... as long as that page is still up to date anyways (I think it is).

 

[jpinard]

I had just written another post while you two were writing this up. I can't figure out how to become "Imperial", nor how to get Primogeniture. I'm at Legalism level 5 (ignored all other social options) to level that up ASAP, but outside of maxing out my Desmense I don't see what this does towards getting the title "Centralized", late feudal, or Imperial.

 

[Ragingnorman]

To go imperial: Unite two de jure Kingdoms + 80% of the de jure territory of the same empire: your desmense will increase, your vassal limit will increase, you will become more stable, and have room to expand.

Primogeniture: Reign for 10 years, get Late Feudal administration, have no vassals with negative opinion, change inheritance law to primogeniture.

 

[jpinard]

To go imperial: Unite two de jure Kingdoms + 80% of the de jure territory of the same empire: your desmense will increase, your vassal limit will increase, you will become more stable, and have room to expand.

Ok that sounds awesome, but there's some concepts I don't understand. I have kingdom of Burgundy and kingdom of Aquitaine. When I click on deJure Kingdom I most definately have more than 80% of both. I'm just missing 4 counties that are owned by Bavaria for kingdom of Burgundy. I have 100% of Kingdom of Aquitaine.

How do I "unite them"?

<<edit>>
I do not have 80% of Burgundy. I have 11/16 = 68% Also Aquitaine is a bunch of dashes instead of a solid color. Why would that be?

 

[Dragatus]

All of the kingdoms in Eurpope are Elective, and I still don't know how that works. Who gets to vote, and if I'm losing a vote for my preferred candidate, how do I convince others to vote for my candidate?

In an elective kingdom all de jure dukes get to vote on the heir, even if they're not part of the realm. So for each kingdom that you have there is a different set of dukes that gets to vote on the heir. For Aqitaine that are the dukes of Aquitaine, Gascone, Tolouse, Bourbon, Poitou and Auvergne and for Burgundy it's the dukes of Provence, Upper Burgundy, Dauphene and Savoy. If a duchy doesn't exit, it's vote doesn't exist either so there are less voters.

The dukes will generally vote for your candidate, assuming they like you, they like the candidate, and they aren't overly ambitious. They also prefer adult men over children and women. If they refuse to vote for your candidate you can try to win them over with a gift, but it doesn't always work.

Another thing to remember is that the king's vote acts as a tie-breaker, so if you have one duchy in Burgundy and another one in Aquitaine, you'd only need support from one duke in Burgundy and two dukes in Aquitaine. You could also be tricky and create a grand duke that has one duchy in Burgundy and another duchy in Aquitaine, so if you make him like you he'll give you a vote in both kingdoms. Then you'd only need to get support from a second duke in Aquitaine to always get your candidate elected.

Ok that sounds awesome, but there's some concepts I don't understand. I have kingdom of Burgundy and kingdom of Aquitaine. When I click on deJure Kingdom I most definately have more than 80% of both. I'm just missing 4 counties that are owned by Bavaria for kingdom of Burgundy. I have 100% of Kingdom of Aquitaine.

How do I "unite them"?

<<edit>>
I do not have 80% of Burgundy. I have 11/16 = 68% Also Aquitaine is a bunch of dashes instead of a solid color. Why would that be?

What Raginnorman meant is that you need to control 80% of the territory of the empire of Francia (the empire in which your two kingdoms are).

If Aquitaine is a bunch of dashes, that sounds like the provinces have been besieged.

 

[jpinard]

80% of Empire of Francia? Ohhh, that could be tough. Looks like I'll be stuck for a long time unless I can get some kind of miraculous marriage situation.

If I have Duchy of Provence, do I essentially get two votes then?

 

[Ragingnorman]

Try to convert to the most popular culture between the aristocracy (they tend to vote for someone with the same culture), also will avoid the foreigner negative opinion even after you manage to get rid of Elective, always useful. Later, when the situation is stabilized, you can switch back to whatever culture you want and grant duchies and counties to people who share your culture.

Marry some Karlings, make allies, press ducal claims when people revolt (against the ones who revolted, try to assault the holdings to reach 100% fast) or when kingdoms break down in duchies, plan ahead and you will be an emperor in no time.

 

[Dragatus]

80% of Empire of Francia? Ohhh, that could be tough. Looks like I'll be stuck for a long time unless I can get some kind of miraculous marriage situation.

If I have Duchy of Provence, do I essentially get two votes then?

No, you still only get one vote. A single person only gets 1 vote, no matter how many titles that make them eligible to vote they have. This is another way to reduce the number of votes in play actually, because it applies to your vassal dukes as much as it does to you. If for example you gave Upper Burgundy, Savory, and Dauphine all to a single vassal that person would stll have only 1 vote and because a king's vote is a tie-breaker you would always get your candidate. The downsied of course is that the duke would be very powerful and a serious internal threat.

Since you already only need to win over 1 person in Burgundy, I'd suggest against merging duchies there. It however might be worth doing in Aquitaine. If you create two grand dukes and hold 1 duchy yourself, there will be only 4 voters (you, the two grand dukes, and a regular duke), much like in Burgundy. And then you'd again only need to win over 1 of the dukes.

In fact if you create a grand duke that spans both kingdoms (for example Dauphine + Auvergne) and create two grand dukes in Aquitaine (for example Aquitaine + Gascone and Poitou + Bourbon), you would only have to get the grand duke from both kingdoms (Dauphine + Auvergne in my example) to vote for you and thanks to the tie-breaker mechanic that would be enough to get your candidate elected.

 

[jpinard]

These last two responses are pure GOLD. Thank you thank you thank you

I finally, finally! understand this part of the game! It is 5:00 am and I just woke up but I'm so excited I think I'm going to get up and play CK2 on a Saturday morning

 

[Dragatus]

BTW, in case you don't know, if you establish a non-agression pact with a vassal they can't join factions against you, but you will also be unable to revoke their titles.

This can be quite helpful to manage a powerful vassal. But try to avoid marrying your children to their children and go for marriages between nephews and cousins instead. Otherwise the vassal's heir could have a claim on your titles and that's an instant -20 opinion.