I Hate This Games Succession

[Bake__]

I'm not complaining about very late game primo. I actually like that its a little harder to keep your holdings together. However, the actual confederate succession feels broken. And its kinda sad not to be able to use special succession types like tanistry.

In my current game I have 5 kids. I've already conquered a duchy for each one in trying to keep my holdings together Here's the breakdown for what they're getting when I die according to succession screen:

1st kid: 1 kingdom, 1 duchy, 2 counties
2nd kid: 2 duchies, 8 counties
3rd kid: 1 duchy, 4 counties
4th kid: 1 duchy, 5 counties
5th kid: 1 duchy, 3 counties

The Kingdom/Empire titles should be separate from the duchies and counties in succession. There's no way a 1st son would inherit a quarter of the land that the second son is.

 

[johnty5]

Your ruler owns 22 counties and 6 duchies?

 

[Admiral Fischer]

Your ruler owns 22 counties and 6 duchies?

Second post and you are already derailing the thread.

 

[Bake__]

No.

Just like in CK2 you can give duchies/counties to your kids before you die and it counts towards succession. so I conquered a duchy and gave to a son and then did it again and again until all but my 1st born had a duchy.

 

[johnty5]

Second post and you are already derailing the thread.

I’m not trying to derail anything. That just seems like an unusually large amount of duchies/counties for a single ruler to own (they would come with significant opinion and income penalties) and I wanted to check I wasn’t misunderstanding the post.

I wondered if perhaps OP had already handed their heirs some duchies in advance and were including them in the totals - as that would affect the advise anyone could give OP re succession.

 

[Nihonshoki]

Its actually the counties(Domaine Royale) what matters but Paradox just doesnt get it thats why Succession doesnt work. Counties = Land. Titles mean nothing without Land.

 

[Admiral Fischer]

I’m not trying to derail anything. That just seems like an unusually large amount of duchies/counties for a single ruler to own (they would come with significant opinion and income penalties) and I wanted to check I wasn’t misunderstanding the post.

I wondered if perhaps OP had already handed their heirs some duchies in advance and were including them in the totals - as that would affect the advise anyone could give OP re succession.

Maybe further clarifications from the OP about whether the heirs were landed in advance or not could be helpful, but the words as written in the OP says it's from the "succession screen" and thus confirms he did own all 22 counties. Confederate Succession means duchy titles can be created automatically upon the succession so it's indeed less clear on that aspect, but I don't think it's a significant issue.

 

[tapewormlondon]

yeah, it needs to be tied into counties.

The different versions of partition need to be much better versions of each other too in terms of how many counties you keep. At present there really isn't much of a difference.

 

[johnty5]

Maybe further clarifications from the OP about whether the heirs were landed in advance or not could be helpful, but the words as written in the OP says it's from the "succession screen" and thus confirms he did own all 22 counties. Confederate Succession means duchy titles can be created automatically upon the succession so it's indeed less clear on that aspect, but I don't think it's a significant issue.

Well OP has since confirmed that the ruler doesn’t own 22 counties - and that the totals do include pre-given duchies.

So asking for clarification was worthwhile.

Perhaps next time, don’t be so quick to jump straight into dickhead mode and accuse others of derailing threads.

 

[johnty5]

No.

Just like in CK2 you can give duchies/counties to your kids before you die and it counts towards succession. so I conquered a duchy and gave to a son and then did it again and again until all but my 1st born had a duchy.

So, of what you listed, what’s currently owned by the heirs and what’s going to be inherited?

 

[grommile]

Its actually the counties(Domaine Royale) what matters but Paradox just doesnt get it thats why Succession doesnt work. Counties = Land. Titles mean nothing without Land.

Inheriting a king title means a great deal even if all you hold is the capital county, since you get the vassals (some of whom might even be loyal!), the contents of the royal treasury, and the royal men at arms.

Your brothers start their reigns with no money and no troops beyond their peasant levies.

 

[Nihonshoki]

Inheriting a king title means a great deal even if all you hold is the capital county, since you get the vassals (some of whom might even be loyal!), the contents of the royal treasury, and the royal men at arms.

Your brothers start their reigns with no money and no troops beyond their peasant levies.

But like I said it doesnt make sense. You are a King without Land. Main source of income are your own counties in this game.
And why should you invest in these counties if you gonna lose them anyway?
I only play with primo mods gavelkind just sucks.

 

[grommile]

But like I said it doesnt make sense. You are a King without Land. Main source of income are your own counties in this game.
And why should you invest in these counties if you gonna lose them anyway?

I mostly don't invest in my outlying counties; my bishop (who likes me, so pays me money) is busy improving my churches for me, and I have soldiers to pay.

 

[Bake__]

My king currently owns 1 kingdom, 2 duchies, and 5 counties -What I consider my core land-.

To keep it together I conquered 4 duchies and gave one to each kid. On the succession screen it took kid 3-5 out of succession. However, I'm still losing one of my duchies and 3 counties to my second kid. If I conquer him another duchy, it will just take him out of succession and put my 3rd kid back in line to inherit my kings second duchy.

Because counties arent separated from duchies in succession, my 1st son is only getting the 2 counties tied to the capital duchy. While my second son is getting 8 counties from a 5 county duchy i previously conquered for him and my 3 county duchy I currently owned.

Either kingdoms/emperor titles should be separate from duchies/counties in succession, or duchies and counties should be separated. I don't think this succession makes a lot of sense.

 

[Nihonshoki]

My king currently owns 1 kingdom, 2 duchies, and 5 counties -What I consider my core land-.

To keep it together I conquered 4 duchies and gave one to each kid. On the succession screen it took kid 3-5 out of succession. However, I'm still losing one of my duchies and 3 counties to my second kid. If I conquer him another duchy, it will just take him out of succession and put my 3rd kid back in line to inherit my kings second duchy.

Because counties arent separated from duchies in succession, my 1st son is only getting the 2 counties tied to the capital duchy. While my second son is getting 8 counties from a 5 county duchy i previously conquered for him and my 3 county duchy I currently owned.

Either kingdoms/emperor titles should be separate from duchies/counties in succession, or duchies and counties should be separated. I don't think this succession makes a lot of sense.

Gavelkind is a ponzi scheme like the Assyrian Empire. Always conquer new Land so can hold your crown land. If you dont conquer you become always much weaker.
In reality the Kings, especially the Kings of France, tried to expand their crownland since 1066. I dont think Primo should be 1200.
In my opinion the player should decide what he wants to play. Atleast mods can fix this.

 

[Admiral Fischer]

My king currently owns 1 kingdom, 2 duchies, and 5 counties -What I consider my core land-.

To keep it together I conquered 4 duchies and gave one to each kid. On the succession screen it took kid 3-5 out of succession. However, I'm still losing one of my duchies and 3 counties to my second kid. If I conquer him another duchy, it will just take him out of succession and put my 3rd kid back in line to inherit my kings second duchy.

Because counties arent separated from duchies in succession, my 1st son is only getting the 2 counties tied to the capital duchy. While my second son is getting 8 counties from a 5 county duchy i previously conquered for him and my 3 county duchy I currently owned.

Either kingdoms/emperor titles should be separate from duchies/counties in succession, or duchies and counties should be separated. I don't think this succession makes a lot of sense.

I'm yet to see this kind of succession tie in the CK3, but while in the CK2 the trick was to conquer a county that is outside of your de jure Kingdom and then giving that county (not duchy) to the tie breaker.

 

[johnty5]

My king currently owns 1 kingdom, 2 duchies, and 5 counties -What I consider my core land-.

To keep it together I conquered 4 duchies and gave one to each kid. On the succession screen it took kid 3-5 out of succession. However, I'm still losing one of my duchies and 3 counties to my second kid. If I conquer him another duchy, it will just take him out of succession and put my 3rd kid back in line to inherit my kings second duchy.

Because counties arent separated from duchies in succession, my 1st son is only getting the 2 counties tied to the capital duchy. While my second son is getting 8 counties from a 5 county duchy i previously conquered for him and my 3 county duchy I currently owned.

Either kingdoms/emperor titles should be separate from duchies/counties in succession, or duchies and counties should be separated. I don't think this succession makes a lot of sense.

Get rid of the counties you own in the duchy your second son stands to inherit (not the one he already owns) and replace them with three other counties (not counties in any of your heir’s current duchies). That should result in your Primary heir/First son ending up with 4 counties post-succession.

 

[wickermoon]

Btw. you actually can activate tanistry for your titles (rank duchy and above). Just go to a title's screen and at the lower end you will find an "Add Law" button. There you can activate Tanistry (and other) Elective.

 

[unmerged(771301)]

This is one of those mechanics where historicity needs to take a backseat to gameplay (and I tend to favor historicity/role-play in Paradox games).

Partition/gavelkind is a complicated, convoluted mechanic that seems to have continually frustrated and confused a large majority of the player base since it was introduced. To make it worse, it's not even a good representation of the often complex and varied succession laws of the time period, based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the topic.

Just let the player hand out titles based on the rules of succesion; i.e., if confederate partition requires a particular heir to receive X counties in Y duchies, let the player hand out titles according to those rules. You're still forced to break up your demesne, but at least you have an understanding of what is happening. Right now, players do convoluted/gamey things to get what they want anyway; why not just make it more straightforward for them?

EDIT: Just read this thread for examples of the things players go through to essentially end up with a more orderly/predictable succession anyway: disinherit everyone (gamey and ahistorical), force everyone to take vows (gamey and ahistorical), destroy multiple titles (gamey and ahistorical), kill everyone off (not completely ahistorical), etc., etc.

 

[praftd]

Succession is actually not working as intended In a lot of ways, I'm pretty sure.

Partitioning does really make sense and seems to count titles wrong leading to situations where your heir only keeps 1 county while your brother gets the rests. Make no sense.

Then there is a random glitch with elective. 9 times out of 10 it works fine. My heir gets everything. This lasts and entire game. But every so often I start a new game and it just flat out doesn't work. For the entire game. I literally can start a new game as the same character with the same circumstances and suddenly it works again.