I guess I have a concern (Victoria 2 's release)

[Duuk]

I don't feel like reading all of this.

Anyway, we've been on this ride for 10 years now, get over yourself. It's going to be a bug-ridden mess, but we'll still buy it.

Dear Paradox,

This is the attitude you've created. And this is from a FAN.

"I already know the game will be a bug ridden mess."

And I won't be buying it.

I didn't buy any of the EU3 expansions, nor Rome, nor HOI3. I haven't purchased any of their published games. They basically lost me as a customer with the constant mess.

Which is sad, because I really was looking forward to V2 (and hoping for CK2).

 

[Alexander Seil]

We buy it because of the patching process. It's a well known fact. If you're uncomfortable with this model, well, as you said, you don't have to buy it.

 

[Kurek]

After the debacle of the release of HoI3 and the fact that after 3 patches it's still a worthless pile of shit that I wasted £30 on I think I'll skip V2.

Sort your shit out Paradox. Finish your games before you release them.

 

[Duuk]

To translate that into something less offensive:

The HOI3 players are not going to stand up and say "Wow HOI3 was such a good game, I think I'll try this V2 thing."

So Paradox's largest fanbase wouldn't touch V2 with a 10 foot pole. Your internal marketing of your products has failed, because only the fanatically loyal Victoria people will buy the game without question.

That's what I've been saying this whole thread:

Paradox's lack of polished releases hurts them more than their quality patches help them.

 

[Alexander Seil]

Given that HoI and Victoria markets don't have that much of an overlap to begin with, I doubt you'll be making Johan cry here.

Also, you fail at logic. As far as we can see, Paradox revenue stream and profile increased considerably over the last few years. So clearly their lack of polished releases didn't really hurt them that much.

 

[Duuk]

Paradox's "revenue stream" has mostly been EU3 and HOI.

Anything they've done outside of that has been a colossal failure.

HOI2 made them enough money to get into distribution and publishing, which has helped.

Their own core games though are still EU and HOI. Vicky, CK, Diplomacy, Rome haven't caught on.

So I guess Paradox's "revenue stream" logic means they should start working on HOI4 pretty soon, huh?

 

[Vulture]

Without mentioning any moderator decisions, let's just say that this thread hasn't exactly received the response from Paradox' employees and volunteers that I expected. It's almost as if, by asking Paradox if they'd please make as bug-free a release as possible, I'm committing some kind of infraction.

1. Weekend. WEEKEND.
2. OT Forum. Not so often visited anyway.

 

[Vulture]

After the debacle of the release of HoI3 and the fact that after 3 patches it's still a worthless pile of shit that I wasted £30 on I think I'll skip V2.

Sort your shit out Paradox. Finish your games before you release them.

Now, this was a nice thread. But mind the language fella. Warning sent out. Next time it'll be an infraction.

 

[Lemeard]

I don't feel like reading all of this.

Anyway, we've been on this ride for 10 years now, get over yourself. It's going to be a bug-ridden mess, but we'll still buy it.

No I won't. I've stopped.

Long live Ebay!

 

[Vulture]

Paradox's "revenue stream" has mostly been EU3 and HOI.

Anything they've done outside of that has been a colossal failure.

HOI2 made them enough money to get into distribution and publishing, which has helped.

Their own core games though are still EU and HOI. Vicky, CK, Diplomacy, Rome haven't caught on.

So I guess Paradox's "revenue stream" logic means they should start working on HOI4 pretty soon, huh?

Again: Rome sold pretty well in fact. The fora are less active, but sales numbers were ok.

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Given that HoI and Victoria markets don't have that much of an overlap to begin with, I doubt you'll be making Johan cry here.

Also, you fail at logic. As far as we can see, Paradox revenue stream and profile increased considerably over the last few years. So clearly their lack of polished releases didn't really hurt them that much.

The loyal fanbase that will always buy Paradox games are a small percentage of all customers. On top of that, that fanbase is being forced to wait several months afterwords for a patch when, among other things, it costs less money. This means less money for Paradox. It's even worse with the average consumer, who will look at 1.00 HoI3 and think "wow, what a shit company Paradox is. I'm never going to buy anything from them again". This means a consumer base that is dependant upon fans who "know the procedure" and even then you are losing money because they will pay less for the game.

 

[Smirfy]

I could put up with the initail bugs if they would try something different with one of their release streams (Eu, CK, V, HoI or Rome) as they are essentaily the same game. EUII being the pinacle. True CK and V had interesting ideas bolted on the side (neither of which particulary worked) but were just the same game.

Slitherine did the same with its Commander series, the Napoleonic release was awful. If its not even in the same century try a different concept.

 

[trajan]

I bought everything (except Diplomacy) from EU1 up to HOI3 at release. Fortunately, Vicky2 as the next announced Paradox product works out for me. I wasn't going to buy it anyway since I don't like Vicky and I'm making a statement about my disappointment that there is no CK2, however ineffective my $50 statement may be. However the HOI3 release certainly reinforces that decision. I tried a few games with 1.01 right after release, tried one game with 1.02, and haven't even bothered with 1.03 based on what I'm seeing in the HOI3 forum. I will be lurking in the Vicky2 forum around release time to see how that release goes and will make a decision on whatever is after Vicky2 based on how the Vicky2 release goes.

 

[Shuriken]

You should admit though that consumers have a certain right to be ticked after a while.

EU2: Buggy out of the box.
HOI: Buggy out of the box.
CK: Buggy out of the box.
Vicky: Buggy out of the box.
HOI2: Buggy out of the box.
Diplomacy: Disowned bastard child, sucked that bad out of the box. Also sucked that bad after being patched. So much for the policy of patching until it's a full game.
EU3: Buggy out of the box, but less so then anything above, a step forward!
HOI3: Buggy out of the box, a step back.

I think "after a while" happened a long time ago. I didn't even buy EU3 until I saw Complete in store for $30. Now that I've fully accepted digital downloading I'll probably get Vicky 2 sooner than that, but as I said, unless I hear it is relatively bug free on release, I'm not paying full price.

edit: EU1 isn't on the list because I've never played it or even seen it in action. I have no idea how it was out of the box, or fully patched.

 

[Shuriken]

They probably do, publicly stating it would do nothing. Hopefully they would realise that patching it is more important than releasing pointless statements.

Thankfully they pay a PR person (Susana) to release "pointless statements", it's a non-sequiter to say that somehow takes away from the patching process. I'd rather they realize making a good game on the first go is more important than patching.

 

[Shuriken]

Paradox should have two release dates.

One for their 1.00 version, with a statement that this game, may have some gamebreaking bugs. Should only be distributed through GG. Cost 40€

The second release date, three month later for the 1.03 version. Cost 45€

I know which version I would be buying.

If they did that I assure you they'd have their small army of fanboys like you lining up to get it on day one, and then nothing after. No one would ever buy from a company who did that.

 

[Johan]

There are several things we are doing. We always try to listen to what this community wants for games.

Eu3 and Rome was bugfree and polished out of the box, but people were complaining they were shallow and not deep enough, so we kind of went over the top with HoI3, in making it "more more more" of everything.

For Victoria 2, we have done several things to avoid another Hoi3-style release.

#1) Better scheduling, with much longer time to just tweak the game.
#2) Not reinvent everything, but refining concepts instead.
#3) Not relying on volunteer betatesters, but using proper QA studios instead.

 

[ravensuominen]

For Victoria 2, we have done several things to avoid another Hoi3-style release.

Thank you, Johan, fo being honest and admitting there were problems with the release of Hoi3. I've been worried for a while that PI is getting a bit arrogant and might start losing the love of us long time fans. I'm relieved to see that you still care.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

There are several things we are doing. We always try to listen to what this community wants for games.

Eu3 and Rome was bugfree and polished out of the box, but people were complaining they were shallow and not deep enough, so we kind of went over the top with HoI3, in making it "more more more" of everything.

For Victoria 2, we have done several things to avoid another Hoi3-style release.

#1) Better scheduling, with much longer time to just tweak the game.
#2) Not reinvent everything, but refining concepts instead.
#3) Not relying on volunteer betatesters, but using proper QA studios instead.

That's good to hear and reassuring. Particularly point #2, because I think for Vicky2 to be a great game, that's mostly all that is needed.

 

[Kurek]

There are several things we are doing. We always try to listen to what this community wants for games.

Eu3 and Rome was bugfree and polished out of the box, but people were complaining they were shallow and not deep enough, so we kind of went over the top with HoI3, in making it "more more more" of everything.

For Victoria 2, we have done several things to avoid another Hoi3-style release.

#1) Better scheduling, with much longer time to just tweak the game.
#2) Not reinvent everything, but refining concepts instead.
#3) Not relying on volunteer betatesters, but using proper QA studios instead.

Thanks for responding to the OP. You've managed to restore my confidence somewhat.