I guess I have a concern (Victoria 2 's release)

[shadow737]

Of course to extend the analogy, while the table might need the third or fourth legs added (or perhaps better to say replaced because they don't function perfectly as intended) post purchase (and the replacements are more often than not later provided by the furniture store already made to fix the problems that came up with the original design, and often installed without cost post purchase...one can then take them to a decorator to add the final surface flourishes to fit with the home decor if so desired), without the furniture shop one would instead have to build the table ex nihilo without likely owning any of the precision tools or the material needed to craft one whatsoever.

You should admit though that consumers have a certain right to be ticked after a while. I bought HOI3 shortly after the first or second patch and to date none of the fixes suggested or patches have dealt with the problem I have with the game. So far I get about five minutes in the game and then I get a weird sound like the game is skipping and then CTD every time. everything loads fine and my system has enough memory to run the game and the processor is far more than is required. I've simply given up on it for the forseeable future and I don't know if I will ever buy another Paradox release within the first year of release again. I have pretty faithfully bought the games and dealt with the crap, but until this time even when I was disappointed with the game play I've never felt like I wasted my money. This time I do feel that way.

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Paradox aren't children that you have been scolded.

They're a games company, they're trying, they need to in order to survive.

Well, I would agree with Duuk that it would be nice if they recognised that the HoI3 release was, to put it lightly, underwhelming.

 

[Woody Man]

Well, I would agree with Duuk that it would be nice if they recognised that the HoI3 release was, to put it lightly, underwhelming.

They probably do, publicly stating it would do nothing. Hopefully they would realise that patching it is more important than releasing pointless statements.

 

[Fire_Unionist]

They probably do, publicly stating it would do nothing. Hopefully they would realise that patching it is more important than releasing pointless statements.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't take long to post a sentence, or even sticky a thread. I need to know if the Paradox trend of releasing unfinished games will continue, because I really got my hopes up this summer.

 

[shadow737]

I'm sorry, but it doesn't take long to post a sentence, or even sticky a thread. I need to know if the Paradox trend of releasing unfinished games will continue, because I really got my hopes up this summer.

I think most of us did. The game seemed to cover alot of gaps that people had seen for years in the HOI2 and even the HOI1 releases and then after everyone got geared up for a great release it crashed and burned on the runway like the first monoplanes of World War I. Hopes were skyhigh and the resulting crash was terrible to behold. Personally I think taking a wait a good long while before initial purchase approach is probably the answer. Paradox does still fix things wrong with games years after the game originally came online so I still have that faith that the problems will be fixed in time.

 

[Duuk]

Anyone who has been on the Paradox fora as long as you or I know the life cycle of Paradox titles. No, they are not practically perfect in every way in version 1.0.

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

A smart consumer doesn't give Paradox money on release day, because we KNOW that the game is going to be buggy to the point of unplayable in version 1.00 and 1.01. That's been Paradox's modus operadi since EU1.

Therefore, Paradox has encouraged me to wait until the game is no longer $49.99 on a shelf and is instead $19.99. Not only do I save $30, but I know that there will be a 1.03 patch that makes the game worthwhile. The problem isn't on MY end, since I get a functioning game at 1/2 price.

The problem is that Paradox gets very very little money from games sold at $19.99 compared to what they get at $49.99. In addition, companies like Gamestop already have to be begged to carry PC games, so adding in the fact that Paradox games (a niche market to begin with) get known for sitting on the shelf until they're discounted, and you have a market choice (capitalism at work) not to carry Paradox games.

Then the only distribution option becomes GamersGate, which is fine but I'm not paying $49.99 for a digital download of a game that is 8 months old.

So yes, there is a VERY DEFINITE reason I posted this in the V2 forum. I want Paradox to realize that even long term Paradox fanbois like me (Paradox is by FAR the largest investment of games by 1 developer I own in terms of quantity and overall cost) are getting fed up with the "Ready Shoot Aim" strategy that they've followed for so long.

It was cute when Paradox was 4 guys making games that nobody else was making. Now Paradox is a "big name" producer and developer in their own right. It's time they act like a grown up company and stop acting like spoiled children entitled to our money.

As an example of a "small company that did it right", I give you Blizzard. Warcraft, Warcraft II, Starcraft. They didn't release them until they knew they were good. And that was even back when they were 3 guys in a garage. All in all, I'd say that "We'll release it when it's done" concept worked out ok for them. I mean, it's been a while since they've released a new strategy game, but I hear they did ok in some other video game field.

 

[jdrou]

I've been playing Paradox games since EU1, and the last 3 PI games EU3, Rome and HoI3 have been absolutely horrible out of the box. Between the bugs and I guess due to the design choice of letting games go more to fantasy direction (Naples colonizing South America or Switzerland invading Germany) than "replaying history" I find the package totally unenjoyable and unrealistic. Thus even after the long patching process I do not see much light in the end of the tunnel.

HoI3 clearly had serious bugs on release and I didn't get Rome until last week but EU3 was possibly Paradox's best release ever. There were few if any major bugs; the main complaints were people who didn't meet the hardware requirements and people who didn't like the design concept (as you describe). Those are not really the issue of this thread.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well, I would agree with Duuk that it would be nice if they recognised that the HoI3 release was, to put it lightly, underwhelming.

Look here

You said that Victoria 2, after a couple years or so, picked up over digital distribution despite its weak retail launch. I imagine for a company like Paradox, digital distribution is real boon, because you can home in on very targeted communities and groups rather than the broader brush of retail.

FW: Yeah, that's right. When we took the tagline, "Strategy is our game," that was to tell people that we want to be kings in our own area. We want to be best in class at what we do. With Hearts of Iron III, for example, it's not the perfect game upon release. We're fixing a few issues, and we've figured out what's in the game. But on the other hand, if you want to play a game with that complexity, with that magnitude and scope, there are no competitors at all. But it should have been more polished on release, I can agree with that.

 

[unmerged(126297)]

That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

A smart consumer doesn't give Paradox money on release day, because we KNOW that the game is going to be buggy to the point of unplayable in version 1.00 and 1.01. That's been Paradox's modus operadi since EU1.

Therefore, Paradox has encouraged me to wait until the game is no longer $49.99 on a shelf and is instead $19.99. Not only do I save $30, but I know that there will be a 1.03 patch that makes the game worthwhile. The problem isn't on MY end, since I get a functioning game at 1/2 price.

The problem is that Paradox gets very very little money from games sold at $19.99 compared to what they get at $49.99. In addition, companies like Gamestop already have to be begged to carry PC games, so adding in the fact that Paradox games (a niche market to begin with) get known for sitting on the shelf until they're discounted, and you have a market choice (capitalism at work) not to carry Paradox games.

Then the only distribution option becomes GamersGate, which is fine but I'm not paying $49.99 for a digital download of a game that is 8 months old.

So yes, there is a VERY DEFINITE reason I posted this in the V2 forum. I want Paradox to realize that even long term Paradox fanbois like me (Paradox is by FAR the largest investment of games by 1 developer I own in terms of quantity and overall cost) are getting fed up with the "Ready Shoot Aim" strategy that they've followed for so long.

It was cute when Paradox was 4 guys making games that nobody else was making. Now Paradox is a "big name" producer and developer in their own right. It's time they act like a grown up company and stop acting like spoiled children entitled to our money.

As an example of a "small company that did it right", I give you Blizzard. Warcraft, Warcraft II, Starcraft. They didn't release them until they knew they were good. And that was even back when they were 3 guys in a garage. All in all, I'd say that "We'll release it when it's done" concept worked out ok for them. I mean, it's been a while since they've released a new strategy game, but I hear they did ok in some other video game field.

I agree completely. I own every single Paradox game before HOI 3. However, even with EU 3, I waited and bought it at Half Price Books. I just wasn't ready to spend the $50 or $60 right away anymore. I would have had no problem spending that on EU 3 if it were released as what it is now with some of the mods like Whole World. I will not buy HOI 3, though.

As far as Vicky 2, Vicky was easily my favorite Paradox game. I'm watching this because I really, really want it to be good. As Duuk said, I hope that the developers are listening to us. Please understand that we are not trying to be rude or trying to be jerks. We are trying to tell you what we want to keep us happy and keep us buying Paradox games. Please take it for what it is - constructive criticism, not a condemnation or a slam.

 

[Vulture]

I have to disagree with the OP when it comes to 'recent track record'. In fact, the last full release before HOI3, EU:Rome was a flawless release mostly: stable out of the box, no gamebreakers, relatively quiet fora, ...

 

[Duuk]

I have to disagree with the OP when it comes to 'recent track record'. In fact, the last full release before HOI3, EU:Rome was a flawless release mostly: stable out of the box, no gamebreakers, relatively quiet fora, ...

...because nobody bought it

 

[Vulture]

Actually. No. Quite good retail sales iirc.

Johan called it a good release all in all.

 

[Woody Man]

...because nobody bought it

I have to agree here, I remember the EU Rome launch as being pretty disappointing for all involved.

EDIT I mean, just look at the AAR forums.

 

[maartos]

I thought EU:Rome was technically a very good product at release. Most complaints were directed at its strategic depth. I didn't think there was a real problem in that department but many longtime paradox fans did, unfortunately. Hence the low forum activity.

 

[Gaute65]

Paradox should have two release dates.

One for their 1.00 version, with a statement that this game, may have some gamebreaking bugs. Should only be distributed through GG. Cost 40€

The second release date, three month later for the 1.03 version. Cost 45€

I know which version I would be buying.

 

[Duuk]

Without mentioning any moderator decisions, let's just say that this thread hasn't exactly received the response from Paradox' employees and volunteers that I expected. It's almost as if, by asking Paradox if they'd please make as bug-free a release as possible, I'm committing some kind of infraction.

 

[unmerged(21821)]

Without mentioning any moderator decisions, let's just say that this thread hasn't exactly received the response from Paradox' employees and volunteers that I expected. It's almost as if, by asking Paradox if they'd please make as bug-free a release as possible, I'm committing some kind of infraction.

Well, even though I otherwise agree with you (and was immensely let down by HOI3), I think you should give paradox employees at least until tomorrow to respond, considering how this is still weekend.

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Paradox should have two release dates.

One for their 1.00 version, with a statement that this game, may have some gamebreaking bugs. Should only be distributed through GG. Cost 40€

The second release date, three month later for the 1.03 version. Cost 45€

I know which version I would be buying.

Why not just the latter? It's better to have a good game on release than having a bad game on release which is excellent a year later.

 

[Duuk]

Well, even though I otherwise agree with you (and was immensely let down by HOI3), I think you should give paradox employees at least until tomorrow to respond, considering how this is still weekend.

I think you missed it. I've had 2 (two) responses to the thread from Paradox representatives.

 

[Alexander Seil]

I don't feel like reading all of this.

Anyway, we've been on this ride for 10 years now, get over yourself. It's going to be a bug-ridden mess, but we'll still buy it.