I guess I have a concern (Victoria 2 's release)

[Duuk]

And that concern stems from the release and fiasco that has been HoI3.

I mean, I have nothing but undying love for Pdox, but I've been less than impressed with the quality lately. I guess I need some reassurance and love from Pdox telling me that the disaster that was HoI3 was learned from.

 

[Shuriken]

I suggest not pre-ordering Victoria 2. Paradox has a sad track record on initial releases.

 

[jdrou]

I suggest not pre-ordering Victoria 2. Paradox has a sad track record on initial releases.

OTOH, if you really love the game concept, playing the early releases lets you help improve the game more quickly (reporting bugs, suggesting fixes & improvements). Vicky 2 is the first game that might pull me away from EU3 (while I bought HoI3 on release I was never that excited about it and I only bought EU:Rome this week).

 

[Shuriken]

OTOH, if you really love the game concept, playing the early releases lets you help improve the game more quickly (reporting bugs, suggesting fixes & improvements). Vicky 2 is the first game that might pull me away from EU3 (while I bought HoI3 on release I was never that excited about it and I only bought EU:Rome this week).

Playing the early release also allows me the pleasure of CTD's, corrupt saves, and great annoyance. I think the original Victoria is the last game of theirs I bought on release, and based on what I've seen after ever release, I think I'll keep it that way. Plus I can get it cheaper if I wait (the price they pay for releasing buggy messes).

Of course if I read on this forum right after release that it is reasonably bug free, then I will happily go and download it at full release price.

 

[Sam L]

Since I only got the original Victoria recently, I would probably wait until Crusader Kings II is released and I'll get the two together.

The problem for me is I don't have enough time to even play CK, Rome and Victoria right now and plus Heir to the Throne is coming out (I'm still not sure if I'm going to get that) and Vicky II is on the horizon.

Obviously, I will get them all eventually but maybe I should get the mileage out of the brilliant three I have right now before acquiring anything new in the coming year.

Of course, that's with the exception of CKII which I'll be willing to pre-order.

 

[unmerged(41229)]

I suggest not pre-ordering Victoria 2. Paradox has a sad track record on initial releases.

That's like asking me to fast for a week....can't do it!

 

[unmerged(105596)]

Well, to be honest I haven't seen a bugfree release from anybody in ages. That's how it goes in PC games: you can release the game a bit too early and then patch it up later. I will buy Vicky2 immediately, and I know it won't be perfect. Usually I wait. Not in this case.

 

[Tormodius]

OTOH, if you really love the game concept, playing the early releases lets you help improve the game more quickly (reporting bugs, suggesting fixes & improvements). Vicky 2 is the first game that might pull me away from EU3 (while I bought HoI3 on release I was never that excited about it and I only bought EU:Rome this week).

I also played all of these games, but to be honest in terms of overall quality EU3 is the best at the moment.

Didn't enjoy Rome very much, it could just be me. I dont know... HOI3 seems nice. Now with patch 1.3 out seems to be running way better but could still need some work i suppose. So as these games have matured also HOI3 could be more fun with more events... It happens very few things during a game. You just build up, invade the enemies and then its over. I guess i need to use some mods for that one to make it more fun? I remember using some nice ones in HOI2 and it made it a nice and more challenging game.
EU3 in nomine however is awesome also without mods!

But I remember Vicky1 on release. It could seem like a disaster. Unstable, POP issues and other issues, and the repeated crashes on certain events etc. The whining on these forums was intense! But our friends in Sweden fixed it and made it good. Also great mods came out like VIP and they made this cool expansion. Revolutions with VIP mod was a blast At that time, it became my everlasting Paradox favourite. I hope to see that day come again

 

[Allenby]

OTOH, if you really love the game concept, playing the early releases lets you help improve the game more quickly (reporting bugs, suggesting fixes & improvements). Vicky 2 is the first game that might pull me away from EU3 (while I bought HoI3 on release I was never that excited about it and I only bought EU:Rome this week).

It is indeed a novel enterprise concept that holds that it is the duty of the customer to improve the product that they purchase. It is akin to purchasing a 'new' table from the furniture shop only to be told that one should affix the third and fourth legs to improve its stability.

Perhaps the retail price should be reduced by a sum proportionate to the labour commitment of the customer?

 

[Tormodius]

It is akin to purchasing a 'new' table from the furniture shop only to be told that one should affix the third and fourth legs to improve its stability.

Thats IKEA!
Also swedish hehe ;-)

 

[unmerged(40886)]

And that concern stems from the release and fiasco that has been HoI3.

I mean, I have nothing but undying love for Pdox, but I've been less than impressed with the quality lately. I guess I need some reassurance and love from Pdox telling me that the disaster that was HoI3 was learned from.

I agree completely. Only a fool would buy a paradox game upon its release

 

[OHgamer]

And that concern stems from the release and fiasco that has been HoI3.

I mean, I have nothing but undying love for Pdox, but I've been less than impressed with the quality lately. I guess I need some reassurance and love from Pdox telling me that the disaster that was HoI3 was learned from.

Not saying this is a guarantee, but I'm sure Paradox will do they best job possible within the framework of limited time, resources and humanpower they have available for this project.

Only advice I'd offer is follow the development diaries closely and see if what they reveal is in line with the kind of game you are looking to play. If yes, then you can either take the plunge and preorder or wait for the dust to settle down post release before making a final decision.

And in the end we Victoria players, of any group on this forum, know from experience that Paradox does not abandon its own self-developed titles if indeed the initial reaction on release is less than stellar. Unmodded Victoria today in 2009 is definitely not the Victoria that was first released six years ago this month. In the end, it is that track record of support for games developed in-house that one needs to remember.

 

[OHgamer]

It is indeed a novel enterprise concept that holds that it is the duty of the customer to improve the product that they purchase. It is akin to purchasing a 'new' table from the furniture shop only to be told that one should affix the third and fourth legs to improve its stability.

Perhaps the retail price should be reduced by a sum proportionate to the labour commitment of the customer?

Of course to extend the analogy, while the table might need the third or fourth legs added (or perhaps better to say replaced because they don't function perfectly as intended) post purchase (and the replacements are more often than not later provided by the furniture store already made to fix the problems that came up with the original design, and often installed without cost post purchase...one can then take them to a decorator to add the final surface flourishes to fit with the home decor if so desired), without the furniture shop one would instead have to build the table ex nihilo without likely owning any of the precision tools or the material needed to craft one whatsoever.

 

[Autonomous]

Not saying this is a guarantee, but I'm sure Paradox will do they best job possible within the framework of limited time, resources and humanpower they have available for this project.

I am appalled that this even needs to be stated. Of course they're going to do the job to the best of their abilities. Good Christ.

 

[Bezborg]

My greatest concern is the map.... If the V2 map looks anything like the Hoi3 map, I'm afraid I'll have to shoot myself. That gigantic grid of a million provinces, all looking the same with their straight regular borders... awful, simply awful...

 

[alvaro]

Well, to be honest I haven't seen a bugfree release from anybody in ages. That's how it goes in PC games: you can release the game a bit too early and then patch it up later. I will buy Vicky2 immediately, and I know it won't be perfect. Usually I wait. Not in this case.

same here.
i am a buyer of that state of the crap game called Empire Total War. CA customers have been abandoned to their fate with a buggy-silly game to start the development of another game which will be pretty much the same crap with different units. and a nice intro bink-video. of course. the video.

should paradox release games with bugs? no, they shouldn't.
is it easy to couple deadlines+profit+complex software+zillions of users/customers? AT ALL (i tell because it's a big part of my job).

talking as a programmer, if you want many features to be used by lots of users getting a software to be functional is difficult and on top of that it has to be fun, and on top of that for PI games it has to be plausible. I mean, compare the manuals of any game in the market with the tones of things that have to explained in a PI title. Maybe just Strategy First games could be similar.

Paradox must try to release bug-free games but as far as we won't pay 150€ (and Patrick's hair neither :rofl for a game, we must understand that the resources are limited, betetesting PI games is not like other kind of titles (BTW, that marketing term Grand Strategy Games sound really pedantic ), and demand commitment from the company to fix the bugs in a decent time.

still, King! i want vicky2 bug-free and with an economic model that astonish any economist! and i won't pay much for it! otherwise i won't buy the game until patches are released and i see a bold head picture in this forum.

 

[Kodos666]

Bugfree releases are a dream of fans and publishers alike, buts lets face it: todays games are to complex to assure a "perfect" game. No one can hope to spend enough time in testing to weed out all problems or even think of balancing (just look at your favorite MMORPG, every second week a new patch which not only ads new content). Even multi-million dollar productions like GTA 4 were nearly unplayable due to hardware problems on PC (while being imported from a technical less powerful platform). Every game i played in the last year after th release had problems that needed patching or get new ingame features (minimap in Divinity 2, CTDs in Empire: Total war, Multiplayer-balance in Dawn of war 2, and a multitude of great and small problems in HOI3) but patches get all of them playable within one or two weeks after release. Games get released the best version possible ( release - 1-2 weeks due to pressing) but ned additional polishing due to the mass of systems and critical observers which the game are applied to, a mass no betatest could eve dream to achieve.

 

[Shuriken]

Well, to be honest I haven't seen a bugfree release from anybody in ages. That's how it goes in PC games: you can release the game a bit too early and then patch it up later. I will buy Vicky2 immediately, and I know it won't be perfect. Usually I wait. Not in this case.

Anyone looking for a bugfree release is living a pipedream. What I'm looking for is a game which is playable in an enjoyable fashion upon release. I'm not aware of any game from Paradox which has met this criteria before, however I can think of a ton of games which do meet the criteria, although no one would call them "bugfree".

 

[The Andy-Man]

Of course, that's with the exception of CKII which I'll be willing to pre-order.

I Would quite happily pre-order CK2 right now if they promise to make it. As for Viky 2, it depends on features and implementations -I really don't want another game were the home of free markets and lassaiz fare operate their economy in such detail Stalin would be ashamed.

Well, to be honest I haven't seen a bugfree release from anybody in ages. That's how it goes in PC games: you can release the game a bit too early and then patch it up later. I will buy Vicky2 immediately, and I know it won't be perfect. Usually I wait. Not in this case.

All of you are being incredibley soft with games companies. Any arguments anyone makes is imo alot of bullsh*t. Before the internet, companies seemed to have no problem releasing games more or less big free (usually there m ight be one or two minor glitches, but no one seemed to notice), Of course, there would frequently be delayed release dates, but the idea you would need to go online and download a patch, and wait for a patch with the same anticipation with which you waited for the game, was unheard of.

Game companies have simply gotten used to rush releasing the product (they tend not to give a release date until the last minute as well), expecting the customer to then go to the website and download patches and upgrades etc, and waiting, sometimes for months, for these fixes to be avaiable. This is in my opinion shameless and shocking abuse of customers, though the impatience of these customers is what caused these problems in the first place.

 

[Duuk]

Bugfree releases are a dream of fans and publishers alike, buts lets face it: todays games are to complex to assure a "perfect" game.

And yet thousands of console games a year are released bug-free.

This has been the cop-out of the PC-gaming industry since the creation of the internet allowed the patch process to exist in the mainstream.

I'm sorry, but if you can't be bothered to release a product that works as advertised on Day One, then you can't expect me to be willing to pay for a product at full price on Day One.