I got hosed....

[sirbruce]

As Duke of Gwynedd I finally got a manufactured claim on the Duchy of Deheubarth. But the cost in money and prestige was enormous. Anyway, I press the claim, figuring the new Dukedom will be worth the cost...

... and then my ruler promptly dies, taking the claim, the money, and prestige with him.

Now, I understand why claims can't be inherited, but I feel like this wasn't fair. Because if my leige dies I don't just lose the claim; I lose what I invested in trying to get it.

Instead of losing manufactured claims when you die, how about letting them be inherited but setting a time limit on them, like 10-20 years?

There also doesn't seem to be a way to specify what title you're trying to get when you manufacture a claim. The logic seems to make sense, but I'd like to be able to target a county instead of a dukedom or a dukedom instead of a kingship.

 

[Tegus]

Claims can be inherited, but in order for them to be so, you must press them(hover over a claim and the tooltip will tell you if it's pressed or not).

In order to press a claim, declare a war over it. If your ruler is about to die, you need to be quick.

 

[Lord Canterbury]

To me, its one of the joys of the game - no matter how strong you might be, the death of a ruler is always bad news... this example you lose a claim (and cash and prestige), another time it might result in the destruction of your kingdom and 200 years of your ancestors good work.

 

[Tarnor]

Is pressed once = pressed for all eternity or is every generation obliged press the claim again?

 

[Johan]

Every generation.

 

[sirbruce]

Claims can be inherited, but in order for them to be so, you must press them(hover over a claim and the tooltip will tell you if it's pressed or not).

In order to press a claim, declare a war over it. If your ruler is about to die, you need to be quick.

I pressed the claim. It was not inherited. (Demo). It specifically says on the tooltip hovers that these claims aren't inherited. Or are you saying to press the claim you *must* declare war? In which case, that button earlier when it says "Press the claim" doesn't really mean you pressed it, which is confusing. Perhaps the "press the claim" button should include starting the war.

Still, that's a bit annoying... you don't know when your chancellor will get a claim, but you're not always ready to go to war right away.

 

[Communazi]

I think to ensure it for the next generation, you have to of at least declared war and white peaced out.

I'm assuming Surrendering relinquishes the claim

 

[Jia Xu]

Maybe this should be re-balanced a bit so that when you first acquire a claim, it gives you a one-time free pass on pressing it? Like generate a claim on England and it's considered pressed automatically for game play purposes. Every subsequent ruler would have to press the claim through war to keep the claim alive. I can only imagine how frustrated I would be if I were in the same situation as sirbruce.

 

[Acesandeights]

To me, its one of the joys of the game

I agree completely!

 

[Tyson_48]

Life is no Gummibär ;-)
Sorry if something like that happens is it just bad luck.

Next time you will act smarter...
Also this prevents from collecting dozens of claim through generations, a known exploit in CK1.

 

[Leto2626]

Well this is the way it went... and it wouldn't be so fun if it was that easy to manufacture claims all the time no?

 

[sirbruce]

Well this is the way it went... and it wouldn't be so fun if it was that easy to manufacture claims all the time no?

This isn't about the ease of claims; they can adjust it harder or easier if they wish. My issue is getting the claim, paying for the claim, and then losing it before I had a chance to go to war. Saying "You must be willing to go to war immediately" is an answer but not a very good one.

 

[Talar]

Maybe this should be re-balanced a bit so that when you first acquire a claim, it gives you a one-time free pass on pressing it? Like generate a claim on England and it's considered pressed automatically for game play purposes. Every subsequent ruler would have to press the claim through war to keep the claim alive. I can only imagine how frustrated I would be if I were in the same situation as sirbruce.

No, if you fabricate some fake claim I don't think so. Sounds good to me that you need to fabricate it again if you did not do anything more than just wave a few old papers around.

 

[lemmy101]

Maybe this should be re-balanced a bit so that when you first acquire a claim, it gives you a one-time free pass on pressing it? Like generate a claim on England and it's considered pressed automatically for game play purposes. Every subsequent ruler would have to press the claim through war to keep the claim alive. I can only imagine how frustrated I would be if I were in the same situation as sirbruce.

Is just right as it is, IMO, particularly for balancing. Imagine how many claims you could fabricate just sat in one county over successive generations, staying on everyone's good side, fabricating and inheriting claims down the ages.

This way, you have to show you're capable of pushing that claim militarily otherwise it's not worth the paper it's written on. You can't just fabricate claims left right and centre and hope that one of your descendants will be strong enough to press it.

Besides, I've gone from Count of Northumberland to King of England (admittedly on easy) without fabricating a single claim. Real claims are the most convenient ones you use when you're thinking multi-generational since you can grab like 10 claims with a single marriage. Click on the 'claimants' tab of any county, duchy or kingdom and take your pickings! Just marry your son to the daughter of a leader you want the claims of and 9/10 your kids will have those claims.

I rely on that much more than fabricating claims, and when I do fabricate claims its because I want that territory *as soon as possible* hence pressing into war is not the issue as I open up the diplomacy for the current holder the moment I press the claim.

Solution is, don't fabricate claims you can't follow up straight away.

 

[Tyson_48]

This isn't about the ease of claims; they can adjust it harder or easier if they wish. My issue is getting the claim, paying for the claim, and then losing it before I had a chance to go to war. Saying "You must be willing to go to war immediately" is an answer but not a very good one.

You had the option NOT to "Press the claim" in the event, right?

If you know your king is old and about to die, you are not ready for a war, then just don't get the claim.
If your king died in young age or even battle or desease...as i said, bad luck, happens ;-)

If you get "free" claims without beeing forced in a war, you'll end up in a screwed map like ck1.
And even an easy exploit to collect claims, wait for good leader and circumstances and then conquer the world...fun?

 

[sirbruce]

You had the option NOT to "Press the claim" in the event, right?

Sure, but then you're out all the time you spent on the claim. Again, I want to press the claim; I just want to be on a war-footing first.

If you know your king is old and about to die, you are not ready for a war, then just don't get the claim.
If your king died in young age or even battle or desease...as i said, bad luck, happens ;-)

More like bad game design, as I said.

If you get "free" claims without beeing forced in a war, you'll end up in a screwed map like ck1.
And even an easy exploit to collect claims, wait for good leader and circumstances and then conquer the world...fun?

Wouldn't work in the system I proposed; manufactured claims expire.

 

[Lornalt]

How is it Bad game design? I almost never gather claims if my ruler is older than 50 years old and mostly spend the time between that and his death to build up my holdings. If your going to press a claim when your ruler is old then it has to be a risk you have to ask yourself if your willing to take.

 

[3inar]

You had the option NOT to "Press the claim" in the event, right?

If you know your king is old and about to die, you are not ready for a war, then just don't get the claim.
If your king died in young age or even battle or desease...as i said, bad luck, happens ;-)

If you get "free" claims without beeing forced in a war, you'll end up in a screwed map like ck1.
And even an easy exploit to collect claims, wait for good leader and circumstances and then conquer the world...fun?

Totaly agree here, nothing more to add realy. Just that this is exactly right.

@sirbruce
I know how anoying it can be to fabricate clames and never actualy being able to press them (but its just a demo and 20 years isent a long time in this game).

@Paradox
And about the press clame button that popps upp I agree it is quite confusing mabe Paradox culd add a bitt of info about having to go to war first(unless there is and ive missed it. Wold be typical me to miss something so obvius in that case ).


EDIT: a bitt offtopic, Anyone know what the average death age is for those who actualy become adult(16 years+) in the game? Or rather do they usualy die befor 60 or do they live like in CK1 70ish?

 

[KroganElite]

To me, its one of the joys of the game - no matter how strong you might be, the death of a ruler is always bad news... this example you lose a claim (and cash and prestige), another time it might result in the destruction of your kingdom and 200 years of your ancestors good work.

Pretty much all empires in history, lol.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Claims can be inherited, but in order for them to be so, you must press them (hover over a claim and the tooltip will tell you if it's pressed or not).

In order to press a claim, declare a war over it. If your ruler is about to die, you need to be quick.

Thanks, I don't recall seeing the explanation before. As mentioned later, does a White Peace or better preserve the claim for the next generation and doing worse end it?

I did read that inconclusive applies when the claim in a war is no longer available. I had a rebellious vassal who was also one of many Imperial vassals fighting against the Basileus but before I could take his provinces his conflict with the Basileus ended somehow. My war with him was ended inconclusively, and I no longer had any claim on the rebel's territories - he was now a direct vassal of the Basileus. I'm still not clear what happened.

(Though I'm downright confused how a mishmash of a dozen or more internal wars for the empire, to reduce crown authority, and for independence all going on at the same time got sorted out.)