I finished my first CS-Game - Feedback and Suggestions

[iShurik]

Hi,

I just finished my Byz game with 1.12.1 and CS. It wasn't a game for world conquest and I never westernized. I just wanted to give some feedback on my expirience.

Fort System

The Fort System makes wars a little bit more predictable, especially if you are on two fronts the enemy can't just march to your capital. Also the fact that it costs money per month adds the strategic decission about where to place the forts.

Rebalance of Trade System

I loved it! In every trade zone there are some key provinces, which give a lot of trade power, if you hold them and add specific buildings you don't really need the rest of the trade zone to make good profit out of it.

Development and buildings

This was the first game, where I had to check which goods I am producing and which provinces give a bonus in Trade Power. This way I could plan to develop the key provinces with very expensive goods and/or high trade power to make the most profit out of it (using manufactories, the +Production or +Trade buildings and increasing Dev Level).
It was a little bit confusing, that you could skip levels of buildings with no loss, I guess this will be adressed and will be changed in the future?

I think development should have been in the free patch though.

One thing that bothered me here:

Unique buildings are gone. I think the current version would be even better for unique buildings than earlier versions of EU IV, because now they would use a valuable slot.

Suggestion:

I really would suggest to add them back in.
Maybe only allow unique buildings for provinces with high development (e.g. 20+ or even 30+) and only allow one unique building type per province.
This way there would be a extra motivation to develop some provinces and going tall, to be able to build unique buildings there.

Increased Cost for expansion

Call me crazy but I liked it. Again it added strategic depth to the decission which provinces to take, bacause taking all isn't always the best option. Blobbing isn't a no-brainer anymore. You have to decide now, whether you go very wide and fall back in tech/ideas for some time, or go tall in tech, ideas and buildings. Overall both strategies are viable.
As I said, I never westernized and I never had problems with lacking monarch points. But well, I wasn't out for a world conquest.

One thing that bothered me here:

Diplo Annexing(even with Influence Ideas) in lategame is more expensive than just coring, because it isn't affected by Development Efficiency or Administrative Efficiency.


As it is now:

8 diplo points for one BT vs 10 admin points for one BT without ideas. (While Tech lower than 23)
8 diplo points for one BT vs 7.5 admin points for one BT without ideas. (Tech 23)
8 diplo points for one BT vs 5 admin points for one BT without ideas. (Tech 27)
If you take Administrative Ideas it's 2.5 admin points for one BT, with claim even only 1.5 points (in lategame).
With influence Ideas it's 6 diplo points for one BT. So its 6 dip vs. 2.5/1.5 adm.

There is a policy, that reduces diplo annexing cost by further 20%, but you have to take Admin Ideas for that one - which also give -25% coring cost - and Influence Ideas. So even in that case it's way cheaper to core.

Suggestions:

a) Adding a similar modifier like Administrative Efficiency for Diplo Annexing in the diplo tech tree.
b) Adding other diplomatic options to lower the cost before Diplo Annexing (similar to claims maybe? It could be something connected to Espionage Ideas )

Rebalance of money

I don't know whether it was just a coincedence in this one game, but in my opinion getting a lot of money is harder now. *thumbs up*


Vassal Interaction

This is a really nice addition to interact with your vassals but I would wish two more options:

-Transfer a part of the Trade Power(25%) for increased Liberty Desire
-Convert Religions from vassals with other religious groups for highly increased Liberty Desire (+100%)

Also I was surprised that vassals always only add 1 to force limit per vassal, I think it would be nice to make it a little bit dependant on vassals size.


Wishes for new features in future DLC/Patches:

Please, please, please rework Espionage. As it is now, it's really not using its full potential. There could be so much more, e.g. diplomatic actions like:

- Increase Liberty Desire of subject nations of your enemy
- Lower Liberty Desire of own subject nations
- Secure own land: binding a diplomat to increase Spionage Defense in own country

- Lowering Diplo Annexing cost via Propaganda(or something similar) in your subject nations before starting the annexation; one possible method:
You would have to build up relations up to 190+, after 10 years you could start the Propaganda which reduces the Diplo Annexing cost over time, after another 10 (or whatver) years it would be at it's min level; the min level would depend on ideas and so on.


Also we really need a new interface for supporting rebels.
The current version doesn't provide any usefull information.

Before and while supporting rebels I would like to know about:

-The overall percentage added to unrest in the country because of my support
-The predicted time until the revolt uprises
-The progress of the ongoing revolt




Okay I think that's all for now. Overall I really, really like the current version of EU IV and Common Sense, but of course there are always things to improve.

What do you think about my feedback? You are of course free to add your own feedback.

 

[Chief Iacid]

Well structured, thoughtful and thorough feedback. I'm sure Paradox devs and designers appreciate it. Inspiring also for us players.

I especially liked your point concerning the unique buildings, that they may be even a better fit for this version than previous. Strange that they were removed.

It was a bold move to re-design core game concepts as buildings and forts, but it looks like Paradox has taken the game in the right direction.

 

[alertiu5]

Byzantine... republic? omg. Good resurrection or the empire though.

Just finished my 1st 1.12 run also. Picked much easier start as Muscovy, and, notwithstanding coring costs increase, managed to beat my personal best, acquiring ~580 provinces (wanted to get 1 million MP pool achievement, so had to expand). I quite liked new stuff in this patch, though diplo annexing bothered me too. It's quite illogical that it costs more DP than annexing+core costs in AP, because you still get 60% (thanks pdx for lowering from 75%, though) local autonomy after you spend all this power.

For annexation cost suggestion - as we get change religion and culture interaction options - maybe we could get a discount for matching culture, dynasty and religion, but penalties for liberty desire. That way you could change culture, then wait and let liberty desire drop, so in, say, 100 years, you would be integrating/annexing much cheaper than right after it is possible. I hope I made sense, English isn't my mother tongue.

 

[iShurik]

Byzantine... republic? omg. Good resurrection or the empire though.

Yeah rebels broke my contry in early game and changed my government type to Constitutional Republic... It wasn't planed but well. Constitutional Republic is pretty nice as long as you are not too big, I later changed to another republic type because 30+ seats in parliament were a bit too much.

 

[lolada]

Sweet, good job there in that game. I finished up my Austria game, played up to 1550 formed gray blob and quit -_-

About forts: I built only one fort on Austria isolated provinces, other than that player rarely needs forts, maybe with weaker nations its more needed. Movement block is not really a problem, at least in HRE there's so many states that you can just circle around the enemies. Forts are very nice for defending tho, for example when helping allies, sometimes i would just block the poland and lithuania in Bohemia on rough terrain and they couldn't ever win a battle .

Development: Even with Austria's tech and very little conquering i never upgraded base tax (admin points). I did pick Administrative as 1st and religious as 3rd so i never had spare points. Upgraded lots of manpower and a few times production on valuable goods. Specializing provinces works nicely.

Buildings: are cool, effects are noticable.

Money: had plenty of money, mostly from extortion in peace deals.

Vassals: I didn't notice they add only 1 FL, i think you are wrong or it was bugged in your game. Diplo annexing is hell expensive. Didn't play late but they did say Administrative efficiency REDUCES diplo annex cost. That should work, otherwise its a bug again. And coring is very expensive, even with Administrative ideas it was in 100s.

PUs: I think inheritance is bugged, i had 25% chance to inherit Hungary for many years and it never triggered

 

[atwix]

man good feedback there.

Thumbs up.

 

[Reinou]

Vassals: I didn't notice they add only 1 FL, i think you are wrong or it was bugged in your game. Diplo annexing is hell expensive. Didn't play late but they did say Administrative efficiency REDUCES diplo annex cost. That should work, otherwise its a bug again. And coring is very expensive, even with Administrative ideas it was in 100s.

Vassals add 1 FL, Marches add 2. It's probably not a bug since it's in the files.

march_subject = {
land_forcelimit = 2
}

vassal_subject = {
land_forcelimit = 1
}

Not sure why they changed it. This makes all the ideas that increase vassal FL contribution useless. That is if the ideas even worked, which they don't. You still get only 1 FL even with over +100%.

Admin efficiency indeed doesn't decrease diplo annex cost. That one's either a bug or they changed their mind about it, hopefully the former.

 

[josh127]

Did someone misplace their Poland?

 

[Clownie]

PUs: I think inheritance is bugged, i had 25% chance to inherit Hungary for many years and it never triggered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy

 

[atwix]

Did someone misplace their Poland?

I lol'd.

 

[iShurik]

Did someone misplace their Poland?

Poland had a pretty hard time in that game, it was nearly wiped out by the Teutonic Order but could recover later with the help of Lithuania.
Russia westernized and then was taken apart by Lithuania and Sweden and later completely fell in pieces. In the end the Teutonic Order pretty much destroyed the once mighty Lithuania.
The Teutonic Order did a pretty nice job, they were terrifying till the end.

 

[tom025]

Very good feedback, I totally agree with you, Paradox will certainly take consideration of this

 

[atwix]

Very good feedback, I totally agree with you, Paradox will certainly take consideration of this

yeah sure, i fully expect johan to post something like:

NO

in a fairy tale it would be:

we will continue to evolve this game into happy ever after as WE see fit.

 

[AluminumSoldier]

This is good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to share it with the rest of us.

 

[iShurik]

yeah sure, i fully expect johan to post something like:

NO

Johan - Destroyer of Dreams

I already recieved a "No" from Johan, when I asked about central america beeing reworked in a patch, but as we all know central america recieved an own expansion later on. So it's not hopeless by any means.

 

[iShurik]

It seems that Russia falls apart pretty often in the new patch. This is also something, that needs a fix. I thought it was something, that was special in my game, but there are a lot of threads complaining about this situation. I guess the rebels taking non forted provinces will get a rework in the next patch?

 

[Bramborough]

Nice game, and nice thoughtful writeup (almost all of which I agree with). I particularly like the suggestions of how to re-implement unique buildings.

I'm about 70-ish % complete with my own first CS full campaign (just passed 1700 as Brandenburg/Prussia). One thing I'll say about money; I agree with you that it seems harder to pile up a lot of surplus money, but I also feel like it's a little bit easier to get "just enough" money, and avoid running a deficit and eventually relying on loans. In particular, I love the new loot-bar system, and I've gotten pretty good at making wars pay for themselves as they progress...or at least defray costs such that my income may slightly dwindle, but never go in danger of having to trigger an auto-loan. My wars tend to be rather leisurely affairs; I'll take a non-fort province and then sit there for a while (if the enemy allows, of course); just drain the loot-bar, with no attrition, before proceeding to a fort siege. In addition to supplementing income, also helps keep manpower robust.

Part of this may not really be CS/1.12, but just me getting better at the game. Also, this is the first game I've played without a significant combat navy; I just use my small naval force-limit on light ships for TP in the Baltic nodes. Most of my wars are against either landlocked opponents (HRE states, Poland, etc), or else ports so far from the Baltic that supply range keeps them from sending fleets to mess with me (Austria, Ottomans). So unlike many previous games, naval expenditure is minimal, and wars (usually) don't interrupt my maritime trade much. Still...120 years to go, if I blunder into a scrap with Britain or France (who have the supply range to reach into the Baltic), will be a different story.

 

[WillydaWiller]

Yeah rebels broke my contry in early game and changed my government type to Constitutional Republic... It wasn't planed but well. Constitutional Republic is pretty nice as long as you are not too big, I later changed to another republic type because 30+ seats in parliament were a bit too much.

what rebels did you get? i've understood rebels cant convert you to republic anymore since like 1.5

 

[iShurik]

what rebels did you get? i've understood rebels cant convert you to republic anymore since like 1.5

I think they were revolutionary rebels. How else would you change your government type to a republic?

 

[WillydaWiller]

less than 20 provinces, trade and economic ideas, use decision to form trade republic, or aristocratic and influence for noble republic, but how to get revolutionary rebels at start of game.
-edit "More likely after 1600, 1700, 1740, and 1780." for revolutionary rebels -_-