I don't understand this game anymore. Need help with the new Economy.

[Wewius]

Hello,

So I've played about 15 hours of 2.2 and after 3 failed empires (due to the economy collapsing, I guess?) I've came here to seek advice. (And just a side note: I've played Stellaris for over 400 hours in total so I guess I'm a somewhat experienced player.)

I usually play wide empires. I try do get as much space under my control as quickly as possible and then build up my planets and defenses when the borders are mostly set. Pre 2.2 I also didn't bother with any planets below a size of 18. I always chose Discovery and Expansion Traditions first and then in most cases Supremacy. I've also always put a huge focus getting getting my tech up fast and overwhelm my enemies with superior ships/technology before they can catch up.

Now, with Megacorp, I completely fail to get the game going. My issues are:

1. Extremely slow pacing.

The game feels like a snail. Progress, especially on planets, is hardly made. Pops take ages to grow and now that a planet can easily have 70~100 Pops it takes horrendously long to "finish" a Planet.

2. Ecnonomy feels like a house of cards.

Seriously. All I'm doing the whole game long is trying to keep my economy in check. It's like balancing on a razor sharp edge. Resources from systems are laughably few. Also: Every time I have to build a building to keep my planets in check (like for housing, amenities and so on) Pops who previously worked mineral or energy jobs "rise up" into the new "better jobs" and leave the worker job they had. I know that this makes sense from a logical standpoint but every time it cripples my economy when they leave their old jobs.

Sometimes, for no discernible reason, my energy drops into -30 for about a year or two and then suddenly it recovered. I don't know what happens. It's not my fleet un-docking.

3. Micromanagement increased enormously

I liked the micromanagement. I really liked to keep control over everything. I hated to put up with the old sectors and "give away" control. I was perfectly capable of managing dozens of planets. But now it's not fun anymore. I don't feel like I have control over the planet. In all those 3 games I played for 15 hours I was able to build 2 science labs. 2! Because every time I had to build something else either for housing, amenities or to fix my failing economy (Energy Nexus or that 15% Food Building).

All I'm doing now I constantly checking on my planets, checking on my economy, trying to figure out where to get the resources I need and how.

And on top of that I need to check all the trade routes and make sure that everything is connected to the capital. Oh and of course I need to protect those routes with ships. Ships that I need to fight wars.

I'll stop here because I could go on and on about what is not working for me but I feel exhausted just writing it down here.

Just how do you play this game now? Should I not play wide? Should I colonize every wold I can regardless of habitability or size? How do I make my economy stable?

Thanks for any helpful advise.

 

[EvilTom]

One piece of advise I can give is that rapidly expanding can be quite expensive if you don't have technologies or civics which improve your administrative cap, eg: efficient bureaucracy. Also cohesion (which is in the government section) affects your administration. If you have low cohesion this reduces your administrative cap (or increases the cost of your districts, systems, colonies, I can't remember which). This is something I had noticed and dildn't understand why it kept on going up or down seemingly randomly. Try to keep your cohesion at 100%. This is done by ensuring you don't have too many systems with external hyperlanes (amongst other things). This means that the way you may be expanding is affecting your economy.
You will find that claiming systems in a "snake" like lane to get to choke points faster will mean you will breach your administrative limit and also decrease your cohesion as you have more external hyperlanes.

On trade routes, they are only formed and can connect to starbases and must go back to your capital to be collected. You don't need a starbase in every system which has trade value, as you can build trade modules on starbases which increase the range in which trade is collected. If you are finding you are getting pirated, then you can set your fleets to patrol the lanes.

 

[Alblaka]

• Pop Growth is the new meta and the most valuable stat to have. More pops = more everything
• Colonize every planet you can find, including low-habitability ones. Each planet provides you another source of Pop-growth.
• Priorize food farms early on. More food = more spamming of the Growth Encouraged edict = more pop growth. As well, farms produce more resources per pop than mines/generators, and usually you can sell surplus food for a profit.
• Switch to Surplus Nutriments policy. You can easily produce the +25% food for your empire, but the +10% growth is incredibly valuable.
  
• You will have a massive surplus of minerals early, and a massive lack of minerals mid-game. Plan for that.
• Don't build Generator Districts, at all, unless you're a Gestalt.
  
• Only build industries (Alloy, Civilian, Research, Unity) when you actually have 1 unemployed pop. Industries not only eat resources, they as well draw away pops from your core economy. If you wait for 1 unemployed, this means the industry will use that unemployed guy + 1 from your mines/farms.
• Towards mid-game and sufficiently grown planets, you want to avoid staffing all clerk jobs, so feel free to build industries even when below pop cap, and restrict the number of open clerk jobs. Don't bother with trade buildings at all, unless you're doing a Thrifty-stacked trade run, Clerks aren't worth it otherwise
• You can reduce micro by only paying attention to worlds that have a upgrade icon (only shows for capital buildings, which you should always upgrade asap), unemployment icon (it signals you can add more industry) or overcrowding (usual solution is to build another city district). Ignore 'free building slot' signals, unless that planet is a colony, in which case I would right away drop a Frontier clinic on that on.
• Oh did, I mention: Frontier Clinics on EVERY PLANET. Why? Pop Growth.
• Ignore amenity buildings. Capital building + Clinic + Clerks from City Districts will usually have you covered, unless on low habitability worlds prior to terraforming. Probably needs a single amenity building here.

That's it for starters.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

You sound as if you've fallen into the "I love specialists" trap. Remind yourself:

1. Workers PRODUCE resources. Without enough workers, everything else will fail
2. Specialists TRANSFORM resources (with very few exceptions, e.g. enforcers). Using all available building slots for specialists as soon as you can is NOT your goal; You can leave them unused or use them for other purposes than specialists (you can even use them for worker buildings once researched if you are running out of districts)
3. Don't balance on the edge; in other words, don't build new specialist buildings until either a) you have unemployed POPs ready to start work, b) you are prepared to resettle in POPs, or c) you can afford the pops promoting from workers to specialists and you really need what the specialist produces more than the sum of the worker resources (that will no longer be produced) AND the input resources needed for the specialists products
   
4. Every POP needs food, consumer goods, and amenities (for organics) - food comes from workers, amenities comes from workers or specialists, consumer goods come from specialists or trade value with the corresponding trade policy. And specialists require more consumer goods than workers

If you want to play specialist-heavy you really need some output modifiers, whether it is the prosperity 5% bonus, the 5% or 10% from Egalitarian/Fanatic or the hefty bonuses from high stability (hard to achieve without either many surplus amenities or Aristocratic Elite and focusing on nobles, and the first of course requires extra specialists to provide so only makes sense when the population is already large such that the extra amenity specialists affect many POPs and the second requires a civic pick.

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

I just wanto to thank you for coming here seeking advice instead of complaining about the game being bad just because you haven't mastered the new system yet.

Thank you, Wewius.

 

[Wewius]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Colonize every planet you can find, including low-habitability ones. Each planet provides you another source of Pop-growth.

Even at 20% Habitability, if they are large? Or even if they are small?

You will have a massive surplus of minerals early, and a massive lack of minerals mid-game. Plan for that.

I'm at year 2310 in my current (almost given up on) game and yes, I need minerals but where do I get them? Colonizing more worlds? I can't expand anymore.

Don't build Generator Districts, at all, unless you're a Gestalt.

But I need Energy. I have around +20 ~ +30 Energy Credits at the moment. If I don't have these Districts, where do I get my energy from? What is the point of energy Districts if I don't need to build them. At this point, I'm wondering if it's even a good idea to have Energy Credits and Trade Value be interchangeable and be both currency and a resource for Upkeep at the same time.

----------------

Minerals seem to be extremely hard to get but you need them for everything. It's frustrating. They are needed for Alloys, Consumer Goods and Special Resources and whatnot, yet you find hardly anything in space. Pre 2.2. finding and claiming a System with many resources felt great. Like a small accomplishment. A race won over another empire. Now it's just bland with every system having 2 or 3 Energy and/or Minerals. All my planets are full of mining districts. I literally CAN'T get anymore and yet I'm in negative numbers. Where do I get the minerals I need?

How do I protect my trade routes?

I know that I can set a fleet to patrol between two systems but how big should that fleet be? Should I use many small patrols or one big one? Is four Corvettes enough?

Is it normal that I can't afford to build Science Labs?

What I mean is that I technically could build a Science Lab (meaning I have enough Consumer Goods to "spare") but every time a free slot appears I need to place something else to keep my pops happy. Is it not possible to build a "Science only" world?

I just wanto to thank you for coming here seeking advice instead of complaining about the game being bad just because you haven't mastered the new system yet.

Thank you, Wewius.

Thank you. I just try to re-learn even though it frustrates me to not be able to play the game like I liked before.

 

[evilcat]

1. Extremely slow pacing.

Speed 3. Robots. Empire edict Growth. Planet Edict Growth.
Unfortunetly Gene Lab is more like trap.

2. Ecnonomy feels like a house of cards.

Dont do too much fancy stuff. Focusing mostly on working class with some Goods and Aloys can take you to places. Expansion and prosperity Tradicions very good.
Over time you collect technologies giving + to production.
Swap civics. Efficient Buracracy, Effective Architecture, or Environmetalist could be good.
Keep some (5k?) storage of energy, and buy from market whatever you need.
It is ok to keep building slots open for a while.
Do not have too big job surplus, you pay the price for building but do not get much in return.
Having Governator is very good.

3. Micromanagement increased enormously

Technology. I do not build many Labs as well, but so far i builded decent amounts of monuments. Also There are science from research stations. And several technologies to improve technology output. So i do not build many labs, but unless i do something fancy it is stable 60 months.

Just how do you play this game now? Should I not play wide? Should I colonize every wold I can regardless of habitability or size? How do I make my economy stable?

I stick to the 600 star maps for now.

I generally play as modified Human Union (swap happiness for Architecture/Environmetalist/Bueracracy). Also avoid wasteful trait , and swap nomadic for something useful.
Mild adaptibility, rapid breader. Decadency (ideology ) is free points.
Start with Expanion into Prosperity. Ascession dominion, and Imperial Prerogative. Most often end with Robotic Ascession since it works best with other species.
Start with colonizing only good green/yellow. Find some freinds with benefits and sign migration, then colonize world which would suit them. If you have adaptability you can colonize red planets 30%, you will lose around 10% productivity on them, but over time it lowers. (you get tech with habitability).
Against agressive types find chokepoints, starbase tier II with your fleet.
Get robots.
I have like 3 (or 5) scientific ship (no limit) just to survey staff, at first there is border gore tentacling to green planets, or choking points, then fill in. Some system are just ignored. Use high level scientist to clear anomalies later on.

If early war swap research lab, monuments and some Goods factory into alloys. So your alloy production will be high.

***
Unfortunetly there are things i do not even. Like sectors creating.

 

[Alblaka]

Even at 20% Habitability, if they are large? Or even if they are small?

All of them.
Size is secondary, because unless your planet has a massive amount of mineral/food deposits, you will run out of building slots long before you run out of housing from city districts.
And even if you do run out of housing, then that means the planet has a very high amount of resource districts and will simply stay as an integral rural planet, feeding your more industrialized planets.

I'm at year 2310 in my current (almost given up on) game and yes, I need minerals but where do I get them? Colonizing more worlds? I can't expand anymore.

If you're boxed in by other empires 10 years into the game... well, yeah, you will have to focus on internal developement. But given I just finishes a tall game ~1 hour ago, where I was the galaxy leader by 2450, starting out boxed in between a Devouring Swarm and a Inward Perfectionist... I never even left my 28 systems in the entire playthrough. Still outeconomied everything with just 4 habitable planets (and 4 more of a different type). It was definitely harder than just plain old wide expansionism, but it'S still possible.

But I need Energy. I have around +20 ~ +30 Energy Credits at the moment. If I don't have these Districts, where do I get my energy from? What is the point of energy Districts if I don't need to build them.

Usually your trade value alone should cover all your energy expenses, come mid-game. Depending on the resources you get, you might actually need to build 1 or 2 energy districts in the first few years of your capital, but even then I would rather just build more farming districts and sell the surplus on the market.
As well, make sure to use automatic monthly trade deals to sell surplus, it'S more efficient.

I know that I can set a fleet to patrol between two systems but how big should that fleet be? Should I use many small patrols or one big one? Is four Corvettes enough?

Fleet patrols are bogus. Just use starbases upgraded with some defense modules. Keep in mind that each module increases the starbase's protection range, too. If you fortify your borders, chance's are all your trade is covered already. As well, note that Trade Protection from starbases does not REDUCE piracy... it simply nullifies the EFFECTS of piracy. Which is basically the same, but many players think "There's a white skull icon, must patrol harder". You only ever need to concern yourself with RED skull icons, which indicate the piracy is getting stronger than your trade protection (short term solution, park 10 corvettes there, mid term solution, upgrade the nearby defensive starbase).

What I mean is that I technically could build a Science Lab (meaning I have enough Consumer Goods to "spare") but every time a free slot appears I need to place something else to keep my pops happy. Is it not possible to build a "Science only" world?

Definitely possible. In fact, I spent the first 100 years of my past run without any Civilian Factories. You can switch your Trade Policy to consumer goods, which gives you a pretty solid trade of energy to goods (at an exchange rate that will beat both the market and actually producing goods yourself). Then simply purchase the rest you need from the market.
The downside to this is that past 2300, your empire alone will be buying THAT much monthly consumer goods, the price will skyrocket. I retooled a planet from alloy forges to civilian factories (and later on moved it to my Ecumonopolis) when the price of consumer goods reached 22 energy credits (buy), exceeding even alloys. Not that I couldn't have kept affording it, but after retooling I was instead able to purchase the same amount of alloys instead, speeding up my military growth

 

[Eldoran]

Well the Economy is definitly more "micro" in terms of decisions to make. But since these decisions are really meaningful and not so stupid as before. But ot can get overhelming at first...what is especially difficult for me is to get away from my prevoius learned experiences.

In my opinion you do not necessaryly need to maintain a positive balance in all your resources. I find it quite more effective to specialize my planets according to their layout. And try to build a strong specialized economy. And i do not colonize everything as soon as i can but rather look what planet offers me most of what i need.

Its quite a different approach from the grab everything of pre 2.2.
I carefully expand and specialize...and if i lack some resources i sell my excess and by what i lack.

And different than pre 2.2 you do in fact get a lot more basic minerals and money from pop jobs and not from stations. So if you lack minerals, look for a mineral rich planet and mine the hell out of it

 

[EuropaCam]

1. Extremely slow pacing.

Unfortunetly Gene Lab is more like trap.

Would you clarify this comment? I'm still in my first game, and I found Gene Labs to be the answer to "How the heck do I provide a decent amount of amenities for my new colonies?". The population boost is just bonus gravy.

Are you suggesting that Gene Labs should be avoided, or are unavoidable?

 

[Wewius]

If you're boxed in by other empires 10 years into the game

110 years into the game. Not 10. Is that a typo or did you misunderstand me?

Fleet patrols are bogus. Just use starbases upgraded with some defense modules. Keep in mind that each module increases the starbase's protection range, too.

Up until now I use Starports with two trade hubs. I don't have higher tier Starports yet. So you say I should use defense modules instead of trade hubs? Or upgrade my Starports to support more modules.

Its quite a different approach from the grab everything of pre 2.2.

Yeah, I really liked that, though.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Up until now I use Starports with two trade hubs. I don't have higher tier Starports yet. So you say I should use defense modules instead of trade hubs? Or upgrade my Starports to support more modules.

The best approach - or so it seems to me - is to use two types of starbases where trade is concerned rather than make starbases that are both good at collecting trade and protecting them. All starbases provide 8 trade protection to their own location per size category (so 8 for starbase, 16 starhold..) but that's but a pittance and it is local.

The dedicated trading hub starbases. These stack trade hub modules and offworld trading company buildings. They collect all trade up to N jumps away, where N is the number of trade hubs.

The protection starbases. These stack defense modules and whatever you prefer buildings. They protect all trade up to N jumps away, where N is the number of defense modules, and provide 5*N extra trade protection above what the size of the starbase provides. (E.g. a Starhold with 4 defense modules provides 36 trade protection within range 4.)

Use the protection starbases obviously arise automatically wherever you decide to create a bastion system, but if you've got a lot of trade going on internally you might also want to use them in strategic positions within your realm for trade protection once you can deploy them as Starholds or Greater. Located in the right locations they can protect a lot of trade flowing through the area they control (and it stacks).

 

[evilcat]

Would you clarify this comment? I'm still in my first game, and I found Gene Labs to be the answer to "How the heck do I provide a decent amount of amenities for my new colonies?". The population boost is just bonus gravy.

Are you suggesting that Gene Labs should be avoided, or are unavoidable?

You can obtain Amenties from city district (also housing) Theters (entertainers) and clers. Commercial zones.
For gene lab to work you need a whole chain of Minerals->Goods->Gene Lab. Commercial Zone or Theater is cheaper option.

 

[Alblaka]

110 years into the game. Not 10. Is that a typo or did you misunderstand me?

Missunderstood that detail. 110 boxed in is fine. As I mentioned, I played my entire game without leaving my 28 systems because I was boxed in between Devourer and Isolationist from the very start Doesn't change a thing about the fact you can play great tall economies now.

Up until now I use Starports with two trade hubs. I don't have higher tier Starports yet. So you say I should use defense modules instead of trade hubs? Or upgrade my Starports to support more modules.

110 and no higher tier stations yet? That's a bummer, and explains why you're having trouble controlling trade. Getting those big trade hubs up asap is important, because their effective range increases exponentially with each additional hub (branching paths and all that). 110 years, boxed in, you could probably collect all your trade with 1-3 upgraded starports. And defend your traderoutes with that-1 amount.

You could stick defensive modules on tradehubs, but given the synergy between stacking trade hubs with a offworld trading facility, I recommend against that.

 

[Felidae]

My one advice would be not to stack up a whole bunch of buildings early. That was my mistake in my first game, as pops will automatically upgrade to the highest job they qualify for. As a rule of thumb, build them when you have between 2 and zero unemployed pops on a planet, then wait for employment levels to settle before starting/upgrading another building.

What I'd really like is for the player to be able to assign a planet a role from a drop-down list, so I can remember a half hour later what role I'd intended for a given planet.

 

[Surimi]

Colonize every planet you can find, including low-habitability ones. Each planet provides you another source of Pop-growth.

I really, really wouldn't do this. I mean, maybe if you're playing a syncretic evolution slave empire where most of your pops don't need consumer goods.

I think a kneejerk reaction which everyone (including me, for a while) has had to the system is to go "OMG pop growth" and assume that pop growth is literally everything and you want every single source of pop growth you can possibly get, and you don't. Pops on low habitability planets have much higher food consumption and much higher consumer goods cost. The former is mostly okay, as food deposits are pretty plentiful, but the latter will force you devote endless building slots to consumer goods. Terraforming tech is not that far into the tech tree, but the tech which allows you to terraform inhabited planets is much, much harder to get, and if you colonize too enthusiastically you'll be stuck with a bunch of horrible economy sinks you can't do anything about.

If you are going to colonize them, either resettle pops out every so often or, if you have no migration controls, then don't build housing, and make sure some pops are unemployed. This will cause massive emigration that will provide growth to planets that are actually worth it.

 

[Lamey]

Would you clarify this comment? I'm still in my first game, and I found Gene Labs to be the answer to "How the heck do I provide a decent amount of amenities for my new colonies?". The population boost is just bonus gravy.

Are you suggesting that Gene Labs should be avoided, or are unavoidable?

I don't know that they're a total trap - I definitely prefer the holo theater though. They produce twice as many amenities per pop and consumer good. Pop-growth is king but efficiency is probably even more important. As a side bonus it gets you unity for traditions and ascension perks.

Up until now I use Starports with two trade hubs. I don't have higher tier Starports yet. So you say I should use defense modules instead of trade hubs? Or upgrade my Starports to support more modules.

It depends on the context of your situation really.

Space stations automatically grab trade from the system they are in. Each trade hub you add grabs trade from one more jump away.

Each defense module protects trade from one more jump away, and increases the amount of trade protection that those defended systems get.

Depending on the layout of your systems, your needs in regards to defense against aggressive xenos and your starbase cap there are few ways to handle this.

One way is to mix trade hubs and defense modules in each station. This a very straight-forward way of doing things. Each station will collect trade and protect that trade from pirates in a small radius around it.

Another strategy is to create both trade hubs and defense stations - this is more efficient in terms of trade protection, and lets you maximize your trade with trading companies. It also means your border defense stations can be mighty fortresses uncompromised by other concerns. The downside is your station limit might not allow this. (It looks like Peter gave a more in depth description of this above)

You don't absolutely need space ports in your colony systems as long as some other space station. In theory a star fortress in your capital with 6 trade hubs can suck up all the trade within 6 jumps all by itself. As an added bonus - that trade won't generate any piracy because it's not being transported from another station. Later in the game deep space black site module is actually really nice though and does gives a incentive to have a spaceport in any colonized system. Yay for secret police!

That said:

My one advice would be not to stack up a whole bunch of buildings early. That was my mistake in my first game, as pops will automatically upgrade to the highest job they qualify for. As a rule of thumb, build them when you have between 2 and zero unemployed pops on a planet, then wait for employment levels to settle before starting/upgrading another building.

If you're flailing this is really 90% of the advice you probably need, I'm confident you can figure out all this other starbase nonsense on your own in time.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

@Surimi

Your point regarding higher consumer goods is well taken, but there is one detail you have not taken into account: You only need one POP on a planet for that planet to create its growth; You can resettle all the others away.

EDIT: Egg all over my face; Rereading your post, I can see that you did talk about the special case of relocating every so often; Perhaps not taking to the extremes of this optimization strategy, but you did take it into account. My apologies for my hastiness in replying.

EDIT2: And as others have pointed out, the following is not beginner advice - it is one (of many) optimization strategies for when you already handle the economy well.

----​

There is nothing to prevent a player from colonizing a bunch of low habitality planets as well as all the medium-high habilitability planets in his vicinity and then resettling excess from the hellholes to the good worlds.

Okay, nothing except whether a) the player has resettling enabled, b) is willing to pay the energy cost, and c) is willing to pay the increased micromanagement price and threat to his sanity.

So you'll be paying the increased food and CG costs for one person per feeder planet until such time as you finally get some POPs that like the climate, improve its habitability, or your economy is in a good enough shape you feel you can afford to build up these hellhole planets.

I'm not saying that this is an optimal strategy in all cases or anything silly like that, but it is a very real option; Given that a player like me already considers it economic after a few years to pay 300 energy to get rid of the tileblocker on the home planet that grants +1 POP, paying 150 energy resettling cost per excess POP generated by the base 1.5 growth (+modifiers) and the nearly doubled upkeep for one feeder POP per hellhole is a price I am willing to pay. (And if you manage to get a slave race to colonize with, t is only 50 energy per POP, but you don't always luck out that way with one available to conquer early.)

Bonus points for doing this with expansion tradition such that you gain an extra POP to transfer to somewhere more hospitably as soon as your colonization succeeds.

 

[Lamey]

@Surimi

Your point regarding higher consumer goods is well taken, but there is one detail you have not taken into account: You only need one POP on a planet for that planet to create its growth; You can resettle all the others away.

That's kind of an inside baseball optimization - not necessarily the first advice I'd give someone figuring out the new system.

 

[Eldoran]

@Surimi

Your point regarding higher consumer goods is well taken, but there is one detail you have not taken into account: You only need one POP on a planet for that planet to create its growth; You can resettle all the others away.

There is nothing to prevent a player from colonizing a bunch of low habitality planets as well as all the medium-high habilitability planets in his vicinity and then resettling excess from the hellholes to the good worlds.

Okay, nothing except whether a) the player has resettling enabled, b) is willing to pay the energy cost, and c) is willing to pay the increased micromanagement price and threat to his sanity.

So you'll be paying the increased food and CG costs for one person per feeder planet until such time as you finally get some POPs that like the climate, improve its habitability, or your economy is in a good enough shape you feel you can afford to build up these hellhole planets.

I'm not saying that this is an optimal strategy in all cases or anything silly like that, but it is a very real option; Given that a player like me already considers it economic after a few years to pay 300 energy to get rid of the tileblocker on the home planet that grants +1 POP, paying 150 energy resettling cost per excess POP generated by the base 1.5 growth (+modifiers) and the nearly doubled upkeep for one feeder POP per hellhole is a price I am willing to pay. (And if you manage to get a slave race to colonize with, t is only 50 energy per POP, but you don't always luck out that way with one available to conquer early.)

Bonus points for doing this with expansion tradition such that you gain an extra POP to transfer to somewhere more hospitably as soon as your colonization succeeds.

Well while you can do that it is quite meta. I do not know the Distribution of player types but i do not like such meta intensive strategies...i prefer a more immersive playstyle but not necessary a rp style