I don't understand the attitude of this forum

[dbruser]

Imo the biggest issue with monarch points is that as a western nation you usually have more monarch points you can spend (especially military) unless you blob super hard, but Indian and below tech groups have no choice in using monarch points because it all goes into tech and some ideas. The fact that India and china and Japan can't develop feasibly seems really silly as they were fairly advanced civs.

 

[Wizzington]

The only emotion I ever notice regarding my rulers is irritation when I get fed 179 months of agency denial.

Sure, but that's you personally. Take a trip around this forum or any forum talking about EU4, and watch how many words and how much emotion people put into stories about bad rulers living forever, mocking Enrique and Henry VI, making jokes about hunting accidents when someone gets a 5/5/5 heir, etc. Many players don't realize just how much they actually 'enjoy' getting occasionally screwed by the RNG.

 

[Nassau]

Firstly, as with all forums, those who reply on a forum are often a select but vocal group of a much bigger playerbase.

Secondly, people are more likely to voice their complaints than voicing compliments. That is way companies lure you into writing a positive review with all kinds of tricks, companies know the negative commands are free.

Thirdly, statistically the players on this forum care more about what others think. Because those who care what others think are more online or on this the forum. Achievements are a good way to show off, showing off is best done online, so players on this forum are more likely to be attracted to harder games, not because they like it (hence the complaints when the games difficulty is increased).

I mean just type 'EU4' on Google and 'EU4 Cheats' is one of the first four results. EU4 is one of the most cheat friendly games out there. Yet the topic is hardly spoken about on this forum.

 

[Grand Historian]

Sure, but that's you personally. Take a trip around this forum or any forum talking about EU4, and watch how many words and how much emotion people put into stories about bad rulers living forever, mocking Enrique and Henry VI, making jokes about hunting accidents, etc. Many players don't realize just how much they actually 'enjoy' getting occasionally screwed by the RNG.

Or they just try to find the humor in it. But it does make for great jokes.

 

[Wizzington]

Or they just try to find the humor in it. But it does make for great jokes.

I'm obviously not saying people are super happy at getting a 0/0/0 heir, but negative emotions can actually serve to draw players into games just as much as positive ones - why else would anyone play a horror game?

 

[bzflater]

Realism arguments are meaningless, sorry. You can use realism to argue against or for literally anything.

It's not just realism, though. It's somewhat detrimental to gameplay as tall nations, making countries like the Netherlands significantly weaker than they were OTL and, as far as I understand, the "strength" of nations and historical outcomes are one of the balancing targets for the game.
And historically, the Netherlands were very rich and advanced until their decline. England only caught up in GDP per capita by around 1780. They even managed to hold their ground against England, France and Sweden at the same time in one of their wars.
In 1.12, the New World is greatly nerfed meaning far less wealth from it than before, large-scale development is unviable as it means falling behind in tech and the Netherlands are rather weak as a result, unable to hold their own against only one of those countries alone, not even speaking of all of them at the same time.
IMO a potential solution would be at least partially tying province development to gold.

 

[Beagá]

The only emotion I ever notice regarding my rulers is irritation when I get fed 179 months of agency denial.

Something that works is allying people who are at war with someone you hate

In the french game I´m doing (tried to do BBB achievement but failed, but there other achievements I can still try) got a regency with 2 year old.

Spain DOWed Portugal and was eating them, so what I did?

Allied Portugal. Call to arms, some time later 4 provinces for me.

 

[bzflater]

Besides, gold, on the contrary to MP, has very little uses. It's an almost useless resource in this game, which is weird to say the least.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Firstly, as with all forums, those who reply on a forum are often a select but vocal group of a much bigger playerbase.

Secondly, people are more likely to voice their complaints than voicing compliments. That is way companies lure you into writing a positive review with all kinds of tricks, companies know the negative commands are free.

Thirdly, statistically the players on this forum care more about what others think. Because those who care what others think are more online or on this the forum. Achievements are a good way to show off, showing off is best done online, so players on this forum are more likely to be attracted to harder games, not because they like it (hence the complaints when the games difficulty is increased).

I mean just type 'EU4' on Google and 'EU4 Cheats' is one of the first four results. EU4 is one of the most cheat friendly games out there. Yet the topic is hardly spoken about on this forum.

Most games are cheat friendly, AKA "console commands". Plenty of games let you use them, and EU4 is no different

 

[Nassau]

They can still provide some trade-offs. I didn't really mind most of their uses before 1.12. But province development in particular bothers me a lot because technological advancement versus development shouldn't be a trade-off in the first place as the countries with the highest wealth per capita were also usually the most technologically advanced ones, therefore making that particular trade-off counter-intuitive.

Not true. Often wealth was because a region had an advance over another. Like the Netherlands having a good (natural, because rivers) trade network. This did increase technology to a point, but over the course of generations it makes a country 'lazy', to accustomed to their wealth they stop looking for new ways to make money. Often poorer regions were the birthplace of new game breaking technology.

I'm obviously not saying people are super happy at getting a 0/0/0 heir, but negative emotions can actually serve to draw players into games just as much as positive ones - why else would anyone play a horror game?

Unless players want to torture themselves with ironman mode, the 0/0/0 isn't really a problem. Unless you are willing to accept the 0/0/0 ruler, but then it becomes you choice.

When the choice is gone, people have a right to complain.

 

[Nassau]

Most games are cheat friendly, AKA "console commands". Plenty of games let you use them, and EU4 is no different

Only very few games let you use console commands in such a way and mod the files.

 

[Wizzington]

Besides, gold, on the contrary to MP, has very little uses. It's an almost useless resource in this game, which is weird to say the least.

Hyperbole doesn't do your arguments any favors. It's true that gold becomes too plentiful in the mid and endgame, but 'almost useless resource' is about as true as expansion being 100% literally impossible in 1.12.

 

[Grand Historian]

I'm obviously not saying people are super happy at getting a 0/0/0 heir, but negative emotions can actually serve to draw players into games just as much as positive ones - why else would anyone play a horror game?

I suppose that's a valid point. I guess I would just like to see them get expanded beyond what they are now.

 

[Grand Historian]

Most games are cheat friendly, AKA "console commands". Plenty of games let you use them, and EU4 is no different

I don't think Total War has had console commands since Medieval 2, and Civ 4 was the only one with a built in World Builder (I believe).

 

[bzflater]

Not true. Often wealth was because a region had an advance over another. Like the Netherlands having a good (natural, because rivers) trade network. This did increase technology to a point, but over the course of generations it makes a country 'lazy', to accustomed to their wealth they stop looking for new ways to make money. Often poorer regions were the birthplace of new game breaking technology.



Unless players want to torture themselves with ironman mode, the 0/0/0 isn't really a problem. Unless you are willing to accept the 0/0/0 ruler, but then it becomes you choice.

When the choice is gone, people have a right to complain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita
The countries on the top of the list are also incidentally the wealthiest countries.

 

[Nassau]

Hyperbole doesn't do your arguments any favors. It's true that gold becomes too plentiful in the mid and endgame, but 'almost useless resource' is about as true as expansion being 100% literally impossible in 1.12.

The abundance of gold could be solved easily by again allowing the player to build palaces, monuments, libraries, bigger universities and cathedrals and so on. Each building having all sorts of effects.

Or elite vessels and regiments, costing more money, having a higher morale and fighting bonus, but when they lose costing more WE.

 

[bzflater]

Hyperbole doesn't do your arguments any favors. It's true that gold becomes too plentiful in the mid and endgame, but 'almost useless resource' is about as true as expansion being 100% literally impossible in 1.12.

That's pretty much what I meant, though. You often have way more gold than you can realistically spend past 1600 if you play as an European nation. There should be more gold sinks in this game.
EDIT: fix

 

[Witto]

Honestly I wasn't a big fan of the 1.12 patch (kinda hated it) but reading @Wiz posts made me understand the way he thinks and the process behind the latest changes and it makes sense to me now. Thanks for taking the time Wiz, you sold me on these ideas. Interesting stuff.

 

[grommile]

I'm obviously not saying people are super happy at getting a 0/0/0 heir, but negative emotions can actually serve to draw players into games just as much as positive ones - why else would anyone play a horror game?

Fifty years with a derplord on the throne is unpleasant.

Multiple 10+-year regencies in one game make me stop playing monarchies. Which has reduced the list of appealing countries to one: Milan.

 

[Wizzington]

That's pretty much what I meant, though. You often have way more gold than you can realistically spend if you play as an European nation. There should be more gold sinks in this game.

I understood your meaning, but spare me the ridiculous exaggerations in the future. 'Almost completely useless resource' means that you'd basically be fine if you had no gold at all, and I don't think anyone believes that.

I am looking into ways to address the excess of gold in the midgame though.