I don't understand the attitude of this forum

[Guardian54]

I think the criticism about resource randomness in regards to Monarch Power is to some degree fair, though I also think the randomness adds a certain emotional layer to the flow of the game - you care about your monarchs and your heirs to a much greater degree than you otherwise would. I also think that if the resource randomness *really* bothered people that much, republics would be far more popular than they currently are.

The only degree to which I ever REALLY cared about my monarchs and heirs is how mind-blowingly STUPID the monarch has to be to be unable to figure out the line of succession and whether or not there will be an heir if he decides to stick the current one in an army to die.

Oh, and the gross erectile dysfunction of Ming emperors, because the Muslims need only 4 wives to have +100% heir chance and the average Chinese emperor has 40+.

 

[TheChronoMaster]

HTTT's mechanics are definitely showing some rust, yeah -- I think the game would greatly benefit from, not a dynastic system, but a system wherein you can at least have, for instance, a choice of succession law which influences heir chance and relations.

 

[grommile]

HTTT's mechanics are definitely showing some rust, yeah

Given the reaction to the removal of Divine Wind's building system, I intend to have popcorn at hand if and when they remove HttT's succession system.

 

[TheChronoMaster]

Given the reaction to the removal of Divine Wind's building system, I intend to have popcorn at hand if and when they remove HttT's succession system.

Come to think of it, didn't people hate that system when it got introduced in DW?

Paradox forums, man.

 

[keynes2.0]

The complaint is about a core tenant of the game's entire design, there is nothing that can be done but to redesign the entire game from the ground up, which is a ridiculous proposition for anythiing not named "EUV"

No it's not. Monarch points dont need to go. It's just that something needs to be done with them besides the random changes to coring costs.

Policies were almost a step in the right direction but they made it so policies never upset the status quo.

 

[grommile]

Policies were almost a step in the right direction but they made it so policies never upset the status quo.

Explain how you imagine a policy might be designed to "upset the status quo" in this regard.

 

[keynes2.0]

Explain how you imagine a policy might be designed to "upset the status quo" in this regard.

If an intelligent game strategy involved using enough monarch points for policies that monarch points no longer translated into a "here are the three random levels that decide your tech levels and how many cores you get."

 

[grommile]

If an intelligent game strategy involved using enough monarch points for policies that monarch points no longer translated into a "here are the three random levels that decide your tech levels and how many cores you get."

That's pretty vague. (And my monarch power isn't random, because I set monarchy on fire.)

 

[keynes2.0]

Almost all monarch points go to a few things. Limiting those things without any tradeoffs isn't fun gameplay. When monarch points go low because of a bad roll on a 2d4 (my b), those things are limited. The solution is for there to be other things that monarch points do so there is the option to give those up instead of technology and coring.

Policies might have done this but weren't valuable enough to really compare to technology and coring.

Development might have done this but the tradeoffs make coring waaaay more important.

 

[Jamey]

The complaint is about a core tenant of the game's entire design, there is nothing that can be done but to redesign the entire game from the ground up, which is a ridiculous proposition for anythiing not named "EUV"

Which is exactly why I find it tiresome and tend to skip posts referencing it.

 

[Jamey]

Almost all monarch points go to a few things. Limiting those things without any tradeoffs isn't fun gameplay. When monarch points go low because of a bad roll on a 1d6, those things are limited. The solution is for there to be other things that monarch points do so there is the option to give those up instead of technology and coring.

Policies might have done this but weren't valuable enough to really compare to technology and coring.

Development might have done this but the tradeoffs make coring waaaay more important.

2d4-2 !=1d6

The distributions are exceedingly different, and the game clusters heavily around average monarchs because of that.

It's also interesting to me that so many people complaining about monarch deaths don't try using a republic (with its elections guaranteeing you above average monarchs if you play well) or Theocracy (with no stab hit on death and frequent deaths guaranteeing that you don't have a bad monarch for long).

I'm currently enjoying a game as the Papal States and have no complaints about how MP have flowed for me.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

2d4-2 !=1d6

The distributions are exceedingly different, and the game clusters heavily around average monarchs because of that.

It's also interesting to me that so many people complaining about monarch deaths don't try using a republic (with its elections guaranteeing you above average monarchs if you play well) or Theocracy (with no stab hit on death and frequent deaths guaranteeing that you don't have a bad monarch for long).

I'm currently enjoying a game as the Papal States and have no complaints about how MP have flowed for me.

There's a fairly limited selection of theocracies available in ironman, and switching to a republic isn't always practical or quick. I'm not complaining about monarch deaths/bad stats myself, but if you start as most feudal states, it can take a while before you qualify to be a republic...

 

[bzflater]

Mana really is just a very worn out meme. If someone referenced Ulm in every other post I'd be thoroughly sick of that meme as well. I generally just give posts talking about mana a pass, because tired memes and worthwhile reading are rarely found in the same place.

It's not a meme. It's a word that applies in this context by definition.
Monarch Points are mana by any reasonable definition of the word.

 

[Dr. B]

It's not a meme. It's a word that applies in this context by definition.
Monarch Points are mana by any reasonable definition of the word.

That is ridiculous. Anything that you accumulate and spend on other things can be described as such, if you insist on doing it.
So when you get your paycheck and look at your bank account, your dollars mana have increased, enabling you to pay your rent...
When you give flowers to your wife, your goodwill-mana increases, enabling you to go out with the guys and get drunk without getting unrest in your core province...
Sleep, and your rest mana are replenished so you can perform actions the next day...

Some kids need to get out more.

 

[Wizzington]

No it's not. Monarch points dont need to go. It's just that something needs to be done with them besides the random changes to coring costs.

Policies were almost a step in the right direction but they made it so policies never upset the status quo.

Monarch points are never going anywhere for EU4.

 

[Wizzington]

It's not a meme. It's a word that applies in this context by definition.
Monarch Points are mana by any reasonable definition of the word.

If by 'reasonable definition' you mean 'dumb meme' then you are indeed, completely correct. By the standards you use, you can call pretty much anything 'mana', which showed itself precisely to be true when people started calling political power for HOI4 mana as well.

 

[HREmperor]

If by 'reasonable definition' you mean 'dumb meme' then you are indeed, completely correct. By the standards you use, you can call pretty much anything 'mana', which showed itself precisely to be true when people started calling political power for HOI4 mana as well.

Calm down, you seem to be getting a bit too annoyed at a silly running joke.

 

[Wizzington]

I actually think this thread has run its course, so I'm going to go ahead and lock it.