I don't think I'll ever undernstand Claim Throne mechanics.

[Katakakes]

So I claimed Poland's throne... what happens when the guy dies.. do they end up as a personal union or not?

It's really weird because I had games where I claimed thrones and the monarch died without a legal heir, and the throne did NOT go to me. I've even claimed thrones and didn't get the Claim Throne CB at all.

And as Austria in one game, I didn't claim ANY thrones and ended up getting Poland and Hungary in the same game. Oh and Bremen as well, which was a single county guy whom I had NO relations with. Had to fight France over it.

 

[milkan]

Its definitely complicated. In this case you are Lithunia and you claimed the throne of Poland. Both of you have the same dynasty. I am assuming the heir has low legitimacy ?

You should have gotten the Claim Throne CB in this case, quickly use that to force a personal union because you will not automatically get a personal union when the low legitimacy heir ascends the throne.

Here is something I have copied from a post a while back. Hopefully you will understand this better from this.

There are four possiblities.

A. No dynasty, no heir
B. No dynasty, weak heir / regency
C. Same dynasty, no heir
D. Same dynasty, weak heir / regency

I'll elucidate:

A : You do not share a dynasty. They have no heir. You may claim the throne.
If they die without an heir, you get a personal union. If they produce an heir, your claim is removed. You may not start a war to create a union.

B : You do not share a dynasty. They have a weak heir. You may claim the throne. This is pointless and you will get nothing.

C : You share a dynasty. They have no heir. You may claim the throne. If they die without an heir, you get a personal union.
If they produce an heir, your claim is removed. You receive casus belli to start a war, and may force a union. If they produce an heir before you begin that war, you lose the casus belli and the claim to the throne.

D : You share a dynasty. They have a weak heir or a regency. You may claim the throne. You receive casus belli to start a war, and may force a union.
If the regency ends or the king dies and the heir ascends, you will lose the casus belli and the claim to the throne.

E : You, the target country, and a 3rd country share a dynasty. They have no heir. You may claim the throne. If you claim the throne and they die without an heir, you get a personal union.
If the 3rd country also claims the throne, a succession war begins. If they die without an heir and neither of you claim the throne, a succession war begins.
If you claim the throne, you may begin a war to force a union. If they produce an heir, all claims are removed.

F : You share a dynasty. I don't know the conditions, but you inherit the throne, bypassing a personal union completely.

Note that it is possible to share a dynasty without ever having married a country yourself. A marries B, B marries C, A and C can end up sharing a dynasty. And so on.

 

[Katakakes]

I'm actually Muscovy, but I understand the confusion since their shields are really similar.

Also I thought that with Claim Throne, if the monarch died, you'd get the throne if they had no legal heir on death.. ugh. I don't wanna go to war over it.

 

[Korashy]

You don't get direct PU's anymore afaik. If you are set to PU a country you will fight a succession war with your strongest rival (meaning just unrival everyone for a bit), often however the AI tends to back down if you are overly powerful meaning that you just get the PU.

 

[Katakakes]

You don't get direct PU's anymore afaik. If you are set to PU a country you will fight a succession war with your strongest rival (meaning just unrival everyone for a bit), often however the AI tends to back down if you are overly powerful meaning that you just get the PU.

Sounds gamey. I'm in!

That does explain why I had to fight France as Austria.

 

[Korashy]

You can also steal PU's by rivaling the country set to receive it i think (not entirely sure on that one). Tho most of the time you'll be the attacker, so u'd have to fight the PU overlord and the PU for it.

 

[smellymummy]

You can also steal PU's by rivaling the country set to receive it i think (not entirely sure on that one). Tho most of the time you'll be the attacker, so u'd have to fight the PU overlord and the PU for it.

You also get quite a bit of AE when you steal a PU that way.

 

[Korashy]

50-60 AE for anything 5+ provinces? Anytime!

 

[Tom013]

I'm actually Muscovy, but I understand the confusion since their shields are really similar.

Also I thought that with Claim Throne, if the monarch died, you'd get the throne if they had no legal heir on death.. ugh. I don't wanna go to war over it.

Your screenshot shows them having a legal heir, so I think you're confused on that. Their heir has a weak claim but is not non-existent. See the line: "On Monarch Death - A pretender rises. Regency for _____." That means that there will be a regency for the known heir.

You don't get direct PU's anymore afaik. If you are set to PU a country you will fight a succession war with your strongest rival (meaning just unrival everyone for a bit), often however the AI tends to back down if you are overly powerful meaning that you just get the PU.

It CAN still happen without a succession war, it's just no longer a gimme since a strong rival will get a chance to contest it. If you have no strong rivals, it seems to not necessarily trigger a war option.

 

[smellymummy]

50-60 AE for anything 5+ provinces? Anytime!

Is that how it works, no scaling?

 

[DSwann]

You can only get the Claim Throne CB if you share the same dynasty.

 

[Katakakes]

Your screenshot shows them having a legal heir, so I think you're confused on that. Their heir has a weak claim but is not non-existent. See the line: "On Monarch Death - A pretender rises. Regency for _____." That means that there will be a regency for the known heir.



It CAN still happen without a succession war, it's just no longer a gimme since a strong rival will get a chance to contest it. If you have no strong rivals, it seems to not necessarily trigger a war option.

I thought pretenders only rose when there were no legal heirs to the throne.

What happens if you die without a legal heir then?

 

[Korashy]

Is that how it works, no scaling?

Pretty sure it's around that area still. Just fire a game as France and Surrender to England and then tag shift to England and check their actual AE.

 

[Tom013]

I thought pretenders only rose when there were no legal heirs to the throne.

What happens if you die without a legal heir then?

Pretenders rise if the heir's claim is not strong OR if you have no heir at all. This is in addition to the low legitimacy your new king will start with. You can have the same dynasty and no PUs for an entire game and still have pretenders rise on every succession, in theory. You would be the most unlucky bastard ever, but it could happen.

If you die without an heir at all: Your dynasty will change. If someone claimed your throne, or you share a dynasty with another nation (this is depending on prestige), you may fall under a PU directly or end up with a succession war for who rules over you. If you have sufficient prestige with no claimed thrones or no shared dynasty, you can end up with a line that reads like "A noble from the house of ____ succeeds the throne" in which case your dynasty changes and you stay independent.

 

[Katakakes]

Pretenders rise if the heir's claim is not strong OR if you have no heir at all. This is in addition to the low legitimacy your new king will start with. You can have the same dynasty and no PUs for an entire game and still have pretenders rise on every succession, in theory. You would be the most unlucky bastard ever, but it could happen.

If you die without an heir at all: Your dynasty will change. If someone claimed your throne, or you share a dynasty with another nation (this is depending on prestige), you may fall under a PU directly or end up with a succession war for who rules over you. If you have sufficient prestige with no claimed thrones or no shared dynasty, you can end up with a line that reads like "A noble from the house of ____ succeeds the throne" in which case your dynasty changes and you stay independent.

Thank you for the info.

 

[Deo89]

Since we're discussing claims here. How is it determined which dynasty succeeds the throne of an unclaimed heirless King? Right now, several countries have a RM with Hesse in my game including me (Austria), but it says that a noble from Burgundy will succeed it even though I have more prestige than them (which is what I though happened).

 

[BrotherM]

Well, I also dont understand this mechanism of claiming throne since it has been introduced in EU3, except the claim throne cb and gaining PU this way. I never had any succesion wars, never inherited any throne, nor got PU, etc. So I stopped using claim throne option as it only lowers diplo relations.

If I get this mechanism right, PU/succesion war occurs, when ruler of country (A) (with no heir/heir with weak claims) dies and other countries with royal marriages with country (A) had claimed throne? In my experience it always never happened, just the country (A) was given a new ruler from new dynasty. Or maybe, is there any hidden factor, other than luck, required for succesion war to be initiated?

Although I have spent hundreds hours playing Eu3/4, in this issue, I feel like a total noob.

 

[Tom013]

Since we're discussing claims here. How is it determined which dynasty succeeds the throne of an unclaimed heirless King? Right now, several countries have a RM with Hesse in my game including me (Austria), but it says that a noble from Burgundy will succeed it even though I have more prestige than them (which is what I though happened).

I believe there is a random factor on top of prestige, and I honestly don't know the formula. Prestige definitely IS a factor. Maintain higher prestige, and it might flip. At one point, throne claiming also played a role, though I think that may be gone now?

Well, I also dont understand this mechanism of claiming throne since it has been introduced in EU3, except the claim throne cb and gaining PU this way. I never had any succesion wars, never inherited any throne, nor got PU, etc. So I stopped using claim throne option as it only lowers diplo relations.

If I get this mechanism right, PU/succesion war occurs, when ruler of country (A) (with no heir/heir with weak claims) dies and other countries with royal marriages with country (A) had claimed throne? In my experience it always never happened, just the country (A) was given a new ruler from new dynasty. Or maybe, is there any hidden factor, other than luck, required for succesion war to be initiated?

Although I have spent hundreds hours playing Eu3/4, in this issue, I feel like a total noob.

Did they actually claim the throne? If not, there's definitely a random-factor (on top of prestige). Look up at Milkan's post at the top here. His quote summarizes it really well...

 

[Deo89]

Well, I also dont understand this mechanism of claiming throne since it has been introduced in EU3, except the claim throne cb and gaining PU this way. I never had any succesion wars, never inherited any throne, nor got PU, etc. So I stopped using claim throne option as it only lowers diplo relations.

If I get this mechanism right, PU/succesion war occurs, when ruler of country (A) (with no heir/heir with weak claims) dies and other countries with royal marriages with country (A) had claimed throne? In my experience it always never happened, just the country (A) was given a new ruler from new dynasty. Or maybe, is there any hidden factor, other than luck, required for succesion war to be initiated?

Although I have spent hundreds hours playing Eu3/4, in this issue, I feel like a total noob.

How about you read the second post in this thread?

 

[Deo89]

I believe there is a random factor on top of prestige, and I honestly don't know the formula. Prestige definitely IS a factor. Maintain higher prestige, and it might flip. At one point, throne claiming also played a role, though I think that may be gone now?

I doubt it. Burgundy claimed the throne after I posted this, and they were in line to inherit before the King produced an heir.