I disagree with this.

[Palatinus Germanicus]

Strongly disagree.

So if I want to declare war on my vassal overlord, who happens to be a tributary of someone else... I guess I just need to go play CK2, huh.

 

[durbal]

Tributary system is systemic cancer.

 

[bbqftw]

Welcome to sukthothai experience

 

[Zephyrum]

Sukhothai and Ligor crying in unison.

 

[Palatinus Germanicus]

It took me that long just to get Chagatai to support my independence... even though I got relations +2 (10 bonus to support) from completing TWO missions.... placate Oirat & improve w/ Buryiat. Plus as you can see, I way over-built my army leading up to the war. Not even sure I would've recovered from all the debt.

But it doesn't matter anyway, b/c Ming kicked my a**.

If they become a tributary before you can get support for independence... well, you can just forget about it. I suppose I could've just gone in w/ just Uzbek. But I don't even think I had them onboard before Ming went after us.

 

[Hastu Neon]

I am in similar situation. Just little before I was declaring war on Oirats to get independence, Ming dows on Oirats (for forcing tributary state) and now I am puzzled among:

1) helping them against Ming (we could win, but this does not help my independence)

2) having Oirats losing but I could lose territories to Ming and if Ming enforce tributary it will become a nightmare to get independence

3) dow on Oirats while they are stomped by Ming, but if Ming win before I do, they will jump on me in defence of their newly acquired tributary...

All tremendous options...

 

[Dakka]

Yes, it’s absolutey stupid.

 

[Dutch Patriot]

I am in similar situation. Just little before I was declaring war on Oirats to get independence, Ming dows on Oirats (for forcing tributary state) and now I am puzzled among:

1) helping them against Ming (we could win, but this does not help my independence)

2) having Oirats losing but I could lose territories to Ming and if Ming enforce tributary it will become a nightmare to get independence

3) dow on Oirats while they are stomped by Ming, but if Ming win before I do, they will jump on me in defence of their newly acquired tributary...

All tremendous options...

The third option is your best choice.

 

[Mansa Sekou]

You see what you didn't realise is that "Tributary" actually means "we will fight to the death to defend this shithole country that barely benefits us at all" just like Ming Historically defended their Tributaries, like Champa, Malacca Portugal Russia France.......

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

You should have declared war when Ming went for the Oirat in the 1st place. The way I see it you have two options you wait for the Oirat to break away from Ming after the truce expires or you honor the legacy of your ancestors and kill both at the same time.

 

[Sharples88]

There was once a screenshot where a native player was about to declare war on a CN, who would have their overlord called in, who was a junior partner in a personal union with a nation, who in turn was part of the HRE and the emperor would defend them.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If Ming inherits independence war can you offer to become its tributary?

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

If Ming inherits independence war can you offer to become its tributary?

Most likely not because nations can´t become a subject of a third-party before they become independent.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Most likely not because nations can´t become a subject of a third-party before they become independent.

I guess it depends if Ming is WYP or not then, if not it's going to make you buy out. Unpleasant but no Sukhothai scenario.

 

[Badesumofu]

Trying to remember how it played out in my Mongolia game. I think I just DoWed Oirat before Ming came knocking and then immediately offered to be a tributary myself. Could be a case of needing to do a few restarts to get independent quickly enough.

I agree it's a shitty mechanic, though.

 

[Hastu Neon]

Well, Ming solved the dilemma by crushing me and Oirat alltogether.

In subsequent restart, I have dowed Oirat in Dec. 1444 with the help of Korchin, and easily won. One week after the peace, i became Ming tributary...

 

[Ironside121]

The entire tributary system can fuck off.

Mandate of Heaven(mechanic- not the whole DLC) can fuck off too while I'm at it.

Poorly thought out crap added to the game without thinking about the possible consequences.

 

[Badesumofu]

Well, Ming solved the dilemma by crushing me and Oirat alltogether.

In subsequent restart, I have dowed Oirat in Dec. 1444 with the help of Korchin, and easily won. One week after the peace, i became Ming tributary...

Pretty much my Mongolia game. Key is to do it quickly before Ming tributise them. Get support from whomever, likely Oirat's rivals. Take as much land as you can in the peace, become Tributary yourself, then start eating in all directions.

 

[Gnostek]

What happens if you declare independance war while the Ming-Oirat war is going on? Can Ming troops still attack you? Because if they cannot, it's really easy: just shadow their armies with 1-man stacks and occupy provinces for yourself. Horde superior movement speed means most provinces will be occupied by you and not ming.