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iBaLkiD

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doh doh doh

Why is the relevance of cheating an issue anyway? Who cares if someone does and who cares if someone doesnt. To each is own. You bought the game and you can take a big fat crap on it for all i care and cram it back into your cd rom, thats an individuals perogative. But to come into a thread and ridicule someone for cheating in the luxury of their own home is just inane ignorance. Everyone is an individual and have their personalites and opinions formed by their enviroments and experiences in life. Who is one to judge another about how they choose to play a game, again in the privacey of their own home? A game that said person paid for!

To do so would infer that the way the accuser does things(in this instance, play EU2) is the ONLY WAY TO DO THINGS.

Sorry but that is a great indicator of an ignorant and closed minded individual.

Not trying to be terse, just stating a sad observation.
 

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iBaLkiD said:
Why is the relevance of cheating an issue anyway? Who cares if someone does and who cares if someone doesnt. To each is own. You bought the game and you can take a big fat crap on it for all i care and cram it back into your cd rom, thats an individuals perogative. But to come into a thread and ridicule someone for cheating in the luxury of their own home is just inane ignorance. Everyone is an individual and have their personalites and opinions formed by their enviroments and experiences in life. Who is one to judge another about how they choose to play a game, again in the privacey of their own home? A game that said person paid for!

To do so would infer that the way the accuser does things(in this instance, play EU2) is the ONLY WAY TO DO THINGS.

Sorry but that is a great indicator of an ignorant and closed minded individual.

Not trying to be terse, just stating a sad observation.

I don't want to cheat because it completey makes the late game terribly BORING. Sure the early game is great fun but once you reach a certain point you realise that Mataram shouldn't be so big and have that many cores ;)
 

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Fremen said:
I think this is more related to a game restraint rather than country state. Historically any country had enough diplomats on hand to deal with any diplomatic occurence, and therefore is very annoying to wait for one year to propose something to a country.

Also regarding missionaries... I think again historically there were enough priests in EU2 period more than happy to convert anywhere in the known world.

This could not still be applied to merchants or colonists, where there are some reasons: huge costs, specialized men, etc.

So I don't think vatican is a cheat, but just used it wise. ;)

Well, I disagree.

Maybe each country will have someone to dipatch to another state in a time of need, but will they always have someone educated and skilled enough to make a difference? Would a 15th. Cent. state have an endless supply of noblemen speaking the language of all the nations of Europe and skilled in the local customs of each God forsaken corner of this continent?

And surely there will be enough priests running around eager to convert the heretics and infidels, but that doesn't mean you have someone that is capable of converting a whole province with tens or hundreds of thousands of people. I think you should look at "a missionary" in game terms as something more than just one guy with a funny thing around his neck. Converting a whole province takes more than one man.
 

iBaLkiD

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Semi-Lobster said:
I don't want to cheat because it completey makes the late game terribly BORING. Sure the early game is great fun but once you reach a certain point you realise that Mataram shouldn't be so big and have that many cores ;)

Well, that exactly my point. You can do whatever you want, because its your perogative. Its your game. Its you Semi Lobster calling the shots in your own Domain(Or if you hsare that domain with a Wife/gf then erm, both of your domain's)

I just dont see how someone can ridicule another for how he chooses to play a game. I cheated my bum off when i first got EU1. You know why? The closest i ever came to a stratey game to that point was Starcraft! So needless to say that EU1 overwhelmed me alot.

After cheating ALOT with EU1, EU2 came out and i tried some games without cheats. Boy that was fun too. Then i really grasped the intracacies of the game engine and started playing online. Now i play HOI Vicky and EU2 online and in SP.

You know what? Sometimes i still cheat. Why? So i can play in a way that the normal game setting dont allow. Why cant i add leaders to the Serbian file for a funner game? If it bothers others tough shit, it my game.

If i feel like giving some the Iroquois a boost in early game via INF techs(Cheats) so that i can have an a-historical gaming experiences how is that negative.

If i am so self effaciating that i need to type montezuma 10 times and raise and army of 50 million men, then go on to subjugate the world, becuase i just happen to be in one of those moods, or because it makes me feel better, again tough poo poo if it irks you in any way...



Those of you who do so need to look at the motivator behind your disparaging remarks toward others who differ from your opinion.
 

unmerged(28604)

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Statements like "To each is own" or "You can do whatever you want. Its your game" are true for all the hundreds of threads that not concern pure game mechanics. Still most normal people care what someone does and if someone doesnt. Its part of being a social creature, and kind of the idea with a forum. Maybe you should stay alone in the privacy of your home and not visit a public forum if you cant stand people haveing a free discussion.
 
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iBaLkiD said:
Why is the relevance of cheating an issue anyway? Who cares if someone does and who cares if someone doesnt. To each is own. You bought the game and you can take a big fat crap on it for all i care and cram it back into your cd rom, thats an individuals perogative. But to come into a thread and ridicule someone for cheating in the luxury of their own home is just inane ignorance. Everyone is an individual and have their personalites and opinions formed by their enviroments and experiences in life. Who is one to judge another about how they choose to play a game, again in the privacey of their own home? A game that said person paid for!

To do so would infer that the way the accuser does things(in this instance, play EU2) is the ONLY WAY TO DO THINGS.

Sorry but that is a great indicator of an ignorant and closed minded individual.

Not trying to be terse, just stating a sad observation.
Apply your sayings to your own position. Just because you don't criticize people who cheat doesn't mean it's the
iBaLkiD said:
ONLY WAY TO DO THINGS
Every one is free to cheat or not, even if personnally my opinion is that it's taking most of the fun away and I'll always advise not to cheat. Likewise, everyone is free to voice his own opinion, whether they do cheat or despise it.

A word to the wise,
LK
 

Slargos

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lawkeeper said:
Apply your sayings to your own position. Just because you don't criticize people who cheat doesn't mean it's the
Every one is free to cheat or not, even if personnally my opinion is that it's taking most of the fun away and I'll always advise not to cheat. Likewise, everyone is free to voice his own opinion, whether they do cheat or despise it.

A word to the wise,
LK

When they start calling cheaters low-life scum as a group, though, don't you think it's taken a bit too far? ;)

!Balkid summed it up quite nicely. What you do with your game is your business. I wouldn't brag about completing the game if I'd used cheats since you have no common frame of reference by then.

We're here, we're cheaters
Get used to it! :D

Nevermind that cheating *will* probably make the game boring faster for you, but that is when you need to join the MP community! :) (And may the lord have mercy on your soul if you cheat there. :p )

The level of narrowminded bigotry in the EU community is astonishing. But hey, better that it be taken out here than against some unfortunate ethnic minority eh? :D

Heal the forum,
make it a better place
for you and for me
and the entire player base

There are people cheating
and we shouldn't whine and whinge
for EU's the greatest gift of All

We are the forum
we are the players

WooHooHoo
 

DSYoungEsq

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To "cheat" is to practice fraud or trickery, to violate rules dishonestly. I can "cheat" at poker if I look at my competitor's hand to know what he has; it gives me an unfair advantage not accounted for by the rules of the game. I can "cheat" at football by impelling the ball into goal with my hand unobserved; it violates the rules to do that, even if I am Maradona.

When you are playing a computer game, or console game, with yourself, if you "cheat," the only person affected is you. In essence, you are gaining an unfair advantage over yourself, which does not make sense. You are also violating the rules of the game, you are gaining an unfair advantage on the "game" but that is a pretty abstract concept. Once again, the only person harmed is you, to the extent that you "cheat" yourself out of the experience of the game as it was intended.

I think that the only troubling thought for someone who "cheats" at a solo game is, "am I unable to play this game without avoiding all bad things that happen to me through using these methods?" This thought has implications that go far beyond the game arena; is the person unaccepting of the simple concept that bad things can happen in life? Does the person seek to avoid the consequences of his/her decisions at work, for instance? Will the person always look for unfair advantages in dealing with other people?

Games use "cheat" codes and other similar methods for three main reasons:

1. They wish to play around with the game, or learn things about it that they cannot easily find out without the "cheat;" an example would be using "columbus" to see what the pagans are doing in North America during the period prior to their "discovery" by Europeans. It doesn't really affect the game, but you get something you can't get by just playing. After all, if you've already defeated Ganondorf with the Ocarina, why not play with an invulnerability "cheat" to see what you missed along the way?

2. They use the "cheat" to offer a modified experience, to "change up" the game in some fashion. You've already won a game of EU2, now you want to play some specific role that the game won't easily let you achieve, so you modify as you go. This is really the same underlying philosophy that results in mods; it would be difficult to assert this is somehow "improper" behaviour. Of course, if you intend to share the result with others, you aren't being honest if you don't reveal the use of the "cheat."

3. The "cheat" is used to avoid the consequences of some decision taken, or of some game result, such as random events. You are playing Civilization II, you explore a goody hut, and eight barbarian knights surround your vital explorer unit. You promptly reload the autosave and try again for a different result. Or you are playing EU2 and you declare war on Austria, then when more troops than expected arrive, you turn off the fog of war to see what is really going on. This is the type of solo "cheating" that should cause worry. After all, what is the point to "winning" a game if the only way you can "win" is to alter the outcomes of decisions made along the way to ensure the result? Can you really not tolerate the concept of "losing?"

Obviously, the only person you have to answer to in such cases is yourself. I won't say I've never "cheated" in this sense; I am willing to bet large sums of money against donuts that everyone has at some point (hmmmm, hope I'm right, I LOVE donuts). But I always feel much better about playing when I don't "cheat." Indeed, when playing Alpha Centauri I always use the "Ironman" setting that forces the game to quit upon save, ensuring that I will play straight through and accept my losses like a man. At least that lets me look myself straight in the eye in the mirror. :)
 
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Or superglue your hand to the mouse and the keyboard

That would knock all the fun out of pr0n!


Okey, a new one for you guys, is it cheating if your are making new events for yourself that are good for you? Like... like in Rythin's Evil German Warmongering-AAR?
 

unmerged(21937)

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Semi-Lobster said:
Are there any fun non-cheating countries outside of Europe, regardless of the name of the game I'm more interested in other parts of the world then Europe. I've played as Vij and it was fun (of course I cheated... a lot) but it was fun and they where pretty big to start off with (although mostly colonies)

Try China in GC. They are very fun at least until 1600s and if you manage to get that far without cheating or by cheating very little, then it might feel more interesting to deal with their crappy period in mid 1600s.
 

unmerged(28604)

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Slargos said:
When they start calling cheaters low-life scum as a group, though, don't you think it's taken a bit too far? ;)

Could you please quote all the horrible people who said that. A whole community according to you. I cant find a post which goes that far. :confused: Maybe "Cheating is for the weak" by Hive, is a bit hard, but not equal to lowlife scum. Still that was only one post.

What you do with your game is your business, is always a true statement. Quite pointless to post a thing like that. Its true for cheating, and its true for roleplay, editing....and a lot other stuff in EU2. Difrent choises are equal and I respect people who chose to cheat, but I dont agree with it. A forum is about expressing difrent opinions and thats what people do in this thread. Not more, not less.:)
 

Slargos

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Sven_vegas said:
Could you please quote all the horrible people who said that. A whole community according to you. I cant find a post which goes that far. :confused: Maybe "Cheating is for the weak" by Hive, is a bit hard, but not equal to lowlife scum. Still that was only one post.

What you do with your game is your business, is always a true statement. Quite pointless to post a thing like that. Its true for cheating, and its true for roleplay, editing....and a lot other stuff in EU2. Difrent choises are equal and I respect people who chose to cheat, but I dont agree with it. A forum is about expressing difrent opinions and thats what people do in this thread. Not more, not less.:)

It's not just this thread. This is a recurrent theme. Someone asks for help with "cheating" or editing, and they're called damned dirty cheaters. Ridiculous. :)
 

unmerged(21937)

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It's funny. First a person starts a thread how he cheats too much and asks for advice how to reduce it. Then everyone tells he sucks as he is a cheater or say cheating is ok. Then those who say he sucks and those who say it's ok start to argue and the original persons plea gets swamped by the trampling arguing hordes. :rofl:
 

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The concept of cheating in a game to me can only be applied when you cheat someone else. In EU2 this is achieved in MP games when you do not follow the rules of the game or whatever House Rules that has been agreed on. In SP games you can set whatever house rules you wish in order to make it more fun for you and if that includes using cheatcodes then fine. I use plenty of house rules myself to make the game harder, more historical and fun for me. But really, that is really up to the individual.
 

Slargos

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Byakhiam said:
It's funny. First a person starts a thread how he cheats too much and asks for advice how to reduce it. Then everyone tells he sucks as he is a cheater or say cheating is ok. Then those who say he sucks and those who say it's ok start to argue and the original persons plea gets swamped by the trampling arguing hordes. :rofl:

Duh. Welcome to the fora. You must be new here. :rofl:
 
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Portugal is hard to play without cheating. There's so damn little money! But if you can resist the temptation, it makes for a game that's interesting at every single stage. You have key decisions from the very beginning, and nearly every year. Sending a settler ... can I afford this? If your goal is WC or to colour the map, play someone else. But if you want an interesting, challenging, game, try Portugal without cheats. Make sure you ally with Spain, and then nobody else will seriously threaten you. Once you can build up Portugal's economy, you will know what to do when playing the poorer, cash-strapped nations.
Outside Europe, try the Timurids. As the Ottomans, you don't need to cheat. Nice events, good leaders, most cores in the game (free cbs). Manchus are fun, too. If you cheat, China will fall in a week. Try it the hard way for added satisfaction.

Having said that, who plays Austria without cheating? "Vatican", at least. How can you keep the Electors sweet without hordes of diplomats?

I used to cheat much more. Now I simply don't let my army go over the support limit, until I'm invaded and fighting for my life. More fun, and I understand the economy better.
 

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Notomol said:
Portugal is hard to play without cheating. There's so damn little money! But if you can resist the temptation, it makes for a game that's interesting at every single stage. You have key decisions from the very beginning, and nearly every year. Sending a settler ... can I afford this? If your goal is WC or to colour the map, play someone else. But if you want an interesting, challenging, game, try Portugal without cheats. Make sure you ally with Spain, and then nobody else will seriously threaten you. Once you can build up Portugal's economy, you will know what to do when playing the poorer, cash-strapped nations.
Portugal poor? What about that CoT in your capital? If you want poverty, try playing Wallachia...
 

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Some of you seem to be missing my main problem, years have constant cheating have left me without any EU2 skill anymore. I don't even remember how to turn a profit without putting every single ducat into my treasury!