I cannae ken why there's no Scotland EEP

[unmerged(7267)]

I cannae ken why there's nae Scotland EEP

Is there a Scotland EEP or scenario mod ? I searched the forums and didn't see any, unless I've had wee bit too much whisky.

 

[unmerged(9074)]

There's a British Isles EEP for sure.
And I think I've seen a Scottish one too, or did it get assimilated...

 

[Jayavarman]

Here's a link to the British Isles EEP thread: http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31406

 

[JG1Beck]

Originally posted by Igor Sikorsky
Is there a Scotland EEP or scenario mod ? I searched the forums and didn't see any, unless I've had wee bit too much whisky.

Scotland events are scattered throughout the British Isles thread. While England admittedly gets most of the attention, there is a guy working on some 16th century Scots events, and I am working on some 17th century events as part of the Early Stuarts/English Civil War project with Johnny Canuck. If you have a mind to do it, we can always use more Scotland stuff

 

[Johnny Canuck]

There is certainly a need for more work to be done with Scotland in the EEP. There were some ideas posted by someone a while back about Scotland, but he seems to have disappeared. Any & all ideas would be very welcome!

BTW, JG1Beck, how are the floods down in Texas? I hope they are not affecting you.

 

[unmerged(7267)]

I'd be glad to help. I'm no expert on Scottish history though, I'd have to rely on Magnus Magnussun
Let me know where the big gaps are, and I'll start there.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Originally posted by Igor Sikorsky
I'd be glad to help. I'm no expert on Scottish history though, I'd have to rely on Magnus Magnussun
Let me know where the big gaps are, and I'll start there.

There have been some events proposed for the 1400s, and like JG1Beck said, we are working on some Civil War-era Scottish events, although suggestions for this period would certainly be welcome (Scottish history not being my speciality). In all honesty, ideas from all eras would be welcome. I would be interested in your opinion on what a post-1707 independent Scotland would have looked like.

 

[unmerged(7267)]

I'll try to come up with some ideas this weekend. Should I post them here, or someplace else ?

 

[JG1Beck]

Originally posted by Johnny Canuck

BTW, JG1Beck, how are the floods down in Texas? I hope they are not affecting you.

No, thankfully, they are a good ways South and West of me. I am up near the Ark-La-Tex. More like university affecting me . I now remember why I swore off summer sessions a couple of years ago. I haven't done diddly-squat with the Civ War flowchart lately. I hope to be able to get back to work on it in a week or two.

 

[unmerged(2810)]

If, in EU2 terms, Scotland annexed England, should there still be some sort of Act of Union? This would truly be an odd event, having Scotland dominate the English economy in a reverse of what actually happened, of course. Would the crowns always be maintained seperately by the Stuarts if they had decided to rule from Edinburgh or would they eventually decide to unify their rule?

What would be the effects? I would propose, as a start, to consider the possibility that Scotland would gain the Anglosaxon cultural group but that there would be no gain of any CB shields or other gains.

This would be different from the English version of the event for the following reason:


The northern kingdom did not have a history of regarding their southern neighbors as being of an inherently inferior race. Indeed, historically, "English" and Gaelic culture lived side-by-side for centuries in Scotland (in sharp contrast against the EU2 model that claims that all of Scotland was "Gaelic"--the area around Edinburgh was very Anglo-Norman in culture and had been since the 12th century or earlier). Indeed, the attitude of the Stuart kings historically was neither to turn England into Scotland nor Scotland into England.

Therefore, if there were a "Scotland-dominated" Act of Union, it would likely have a more accommodating result than the "England-dominated" version.

 

[unmerged(2810)]

Here is one suggested "Scottish dominant" version of an Act of Union:

#The Act of Union, Scotland Ascendant        #
event = {

	id = ????
	trigger = {
		NOT = { exists = ENG
			  exists = PUR
			  exists = ROY
			}
		owned = { province = 240 data = -1 }
		owned = { province = 241 data = -1 }
		owned = { province = 242 data = -1 }
		owned = { province = 243 data = -1 }
		owned = { province = 244 data = -1 }
		owned = { province = 245 data = -1 }
		owned = { province = 247 data = -1 }
		}
	random = no
	country = SCO
	name = "English Act of Union"
	desc = "When James Stuart took the English throne in 
1603, he naturally chose to rule from London.  England was the 
far more prosperous and populous of his realms.  He left Scottish 
rule essentially to its own devices.  Much to the world's surprise, 
this was an excellent policy for Scotland.  Expected to become at 
best a stepchild kingdom, Scotland thrived under the Royal 
Neglect, as it came to be called.  A century after the dynastic 
union, Scottish merchants dominated English ports and Scottish 
generals directed English armies.  In 1701, the two parliaments 
voted to unite their laws and practices under the Scottish model."
	style = 4

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1700 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1820 }

	action_a ={			#We are Great Britain#
		name = "ACTIONNAME????A"
		command = { type = flag which = 6 }
		command = { type = add_countryculture which = anglosaxon }
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -1 }
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
	}
}

From a territorial control basis, I made it "easier" on Scotland. Scotland does not have to control Ulster, Wales nor the English Channel coast. However, my event insists that no other potentially "legitimate" claimants to being "England" are around, either. Of course, in the process of eliminating England and getting hold of all those other provinces, Scotland would likely end up getting the provinces in question, as well, at least those on the island of Great Britain.

Now, it does just so happen that this would mean that it would also make sense for a lot of "English" events to become "Scottish" events, given that a united Great Britain could have many of the same interactions with the rest of the world whether it be run from Edinburgh or from London. Thus, it would make sense for a bunch of events and leaders to be essentially "lifted" from the England event files and put in the Scotland file, to be "awakened" if and only if the Scottish version of the Act of Union were to take place.

I would be willing to do this "Scotching" of the events (and leaders) if needs be.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Originally posted by Igor Sikorsky
I'll try to come up with some ideas this weekend. Should I post them here, or someplace else ?

You could probably post them here for the time being. The EEP British Isles thread is dominated by a discussion on the War of the Roses, & I wouldn't want Scottish ideas getting lost in there.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Originally posted by JG1Beck


No, thankfully, they are a good ways South and West of me. I am up near the Ark-La-Tex. More like university affecting me . I now remember why I swore off summer sessions a couple of years ago. I haven't done diddly-squat with the Civ War flowchart lately. I hope to be able to get back to work on it in a week or two.

It's good to hear that the floods aren't affecting you. I haven't done much on the EEP either lately. I have been super-busy finishing research for a professor, plus we are moving tomorrow. However, once I get settled in, I will start looking closely at things again. Also, I'm getting a brand new laptop (P4 1.6 GHz, 512MB RAM, etc.), so I'll be able to test things quite quickly.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Dogface - I like your ideas regarding the Act of Union. I agree with the provinces you include & exclude from what Scotland needs to have. I certainly hope that such an event is included in some way in the next EEP version. However, there is work being done on Stuart England, which may require that a English Act of Union event be altered to fit into the new scheme.

 

[unmerged(7267)]

Dogface-
How about giving Scotland AngloSaxon AND Gaelic as cultures ?

 

[unmerged(8092)]

After conquering England in a recent GC as Scotland, I edited my save to give myself Anglo culture, and made Scotland into a colonizing(sp?) nation. It worked well, didn't have many events, but I went on to colonize most of NA.

 

[unmerged(7470)]

I cannae ken why there's nae Scotland EEP

That's 'dinnae ken'.

 

[unmerged(2810)]

Originally posted by Igor Sikorsky
Dogface-
How about giving Scotland AngloSaxon AND Gaelic as cultures ?

I thought that Scotland would automatically keep the Gaelic culture it already had. I'm not up on the scripting language.

Do the Powers that Be of the EEP bother to read threads about countries like Scotland?

 

[unmerged(2810)]

Originally posted by Sandguy


That's 'dinnae ken'.

Scots English
Dinnae ken Do not know/Do not believe
Cannae ken Cannot know/Can not believe

(As far as I understand Scots, "tae ken" can mean either "to know" or "to believe", depending on context.)

The latter is a stronger statement than the former, of course.

English has an equivalent in the statement "I cannot believe this!"

 

[unmerged(2810)]

In the Scottish Act of Union event, I have considered changing the tag to ENG as part of the Union.

It would have one major advantage: There would be no need to repeat an amazing number of ENG events in SCO files. This would have to be done because the United Kingdom under Scotland would likely face many of the same situations and produce many of the same leaders as would the United Kingdom under England.

A few ENG events would have to be put to sleep, specifically those of the '15 the '45, and the Scottish migrations to the Americas.

I'm going to test this out and see what happens.

If it works, do folks recommend that it be how much of the "rest of history" of the Union under Scotland be handled?