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Kampfkekskrieger

First Lieutenant
Mar 1, 2017
244
0
Prithee, write a guide on how to deal with them. I have dealt with them; by establishing air supremacy and driving them off with massed rocket trains, ambushing them with Bazookas/PIATs, or pincering them, but those are not reliable means.

LOOK THE AI. Really! Play the King tiger and set up a clock counting the last seconds of it!
Look how it beats up king tigers! I have SEEN it!

The AI is beating 80% of the community and hence the MOST EASY THING to give you a guide on - is the AI! It will SHOW you how to kill things!

Wanna see a replay?

Run and learn!

http://files.sd-replays.net/replayfiles ... 811583.zip

(I did not spend any points in A vs Hard AI and played the earliest king tiger one can have, together with a Tiger E.
And I won a highly stunning match setup! But you see my King tiger did get killed despite all that! Now tell me something about the AI, my envious friends! Its just crazy to think you all pray with tears how to kill king tigers, and the AI just laughs on you°! :p
I just cannot hold! I will laugh forever over you!

Edit: (And btw it also kills my second KT!)
 
Last edited:

Rojan

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LOOK THE AI. Really! Play the King tiger and set up a clock counting the last seconds of it!
Look how it beats up king tigers! I have SEEN it!

The AI is beating 80% of the community and hence the MOST EASY THING to give you a guide on - is the AI! It will SHOW you how to kill things!

Wanna see a replay?

Run and learn!

http://files.sd-replays.net/replayfiles ... 811583.zip

(I did not spend any points in A vs Hard AI and played the earliest king tiger one can have, together with a Tiger E.
And I won a highly stunning match setup! But you see my King tiger did get killed despite all that! Now tell me something about the AI, my envious friends! Its just crazy to think you all pray with tears how to kill king tigers, and the AI just laughs on you°! :p
I just cannot hold! I will laugh forever over you!
I love your posts.
 

Drang

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LOOK THE AI. Really! Play the King tiger and set up a clock counting the last seconds of it!
Look how it beats up king tigers! I have SEEN it!

The AI is beating 80% of the community and hence the MOST EASY THING to give you a guide on - is the AI! It will SHOW you how to kill things!

Wanna see a replay?

Run and learn!

http://files.sd-replays.net/replayfiles ... 811583.zip

(I did not spend any points in A vs Hard AI and played the earliest king tiger one can have, together with a Tiger E.
And I won a highly stunning match setup! But you see my King tiger did get killed despite all that! Now tell me something about the AI, my envious friends! Its just crazy to think you all pray with tears how to kill king tigers, and the AI just laughs on you°! :p
I just cannot hold! I will laugh forever over you!

Edit: (And btw it also kills my second KT!)

It threw approximately 1500 points worth of tank and AT gun assets at it, while you left it overextended and without any close support. The second one you literally drove into a pincer trap.

Again, perfectly substantites my points; required serious mistakes on your part to lose them.
 

Drrty-D

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Sure I'm down. What time? Send me your steam in a PM or look mine up. It's just Rojan.
BGB%2BForeman%2BCosby%2BFight%2BGIF.gif


Dont forget to upload the replay comradeso_O
 

Kampfkekskrieger

First Lieutenant
Mar 1, 2017
244
0
My example becomes BETTER the more you ask about it!

You can because of that see that I cannot engage savely with anything besides the heavy tanks, because weaker vehicles cannot reach the danger zone, they have to stay back so the King tiger has to fight alone (or heavy tanks) and 380 points will often mean less support or waiting more time until the next 380 points go into support. Despite that I had some (enough) support! I even used planes, I could also have had artillery instead, just imagine that.

You SEE how easily one can close up with his king tiger, and be it by accident, and
You SEE! How easily I get strapped off my support, and the Allies eats my shell, so you HAVE to use your king tiger in those situations no matter what you do! You cannot avoid it!
Of course you can draw back and support the king tiger, but that costs you time.
You NEED to buy that time somehow, otherwise you loose victory points advantage.

So once given, the Allied player is not so silly to let my support alive, which he is VERY capable to neutralize in an impressive speed, you must, taken all into account, sooner or later come to the result that even if I play stronger, NOTHING ELSE than my King tiger, less so the other heavy tanks, can enter a only a bit defended danger zone and while my KT stays more defensive, the Allied player has even MORE time to snip out my support with his impressive frequency of killing, so being aggressive with the king tiger is the thing that you MUST do, because you have it and 380points shall not be a sitting duck otherwise you waste either time or points as long as you dont use it!

So even if I protect my King tiger better, which is already a challenge, and BECOMES a challenge CERTAINLY by the fact that my opponent makes me busy OTHERWISE, the scale of justice impressively turns to the other side, as soon as you as a player get some pressure!

You dont even NOTICE that your King tiger has closed up half the range and you run into some bocage somewhere, be it only a tiny bit, and everybody can setup a pincer trap very easily!

Thanks that you let me explain this! I dont make a secret out of my casualties I am a honest man. I GIVE you your argument if its value proves true!
 

Fade2Gray

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Wow, the edge is sure getting thick.

"WGRD players would never be happy with WG4, they would complain it isn't WGRD!"

Well gee, sounds like how WGALB players complain that RD isn't ALB and their precious air spammy glory.

"SDN has more customization in deck building than WGRD!"

WGRD has been around for years. The current balance has been solid for a long time now. How long has the meta in SDN been stable? How long has the current balance been around? Are you honestly going to tell me that the exact same thing isn't going to happen in SDN that has happened in WGRD?

I had a few games with WGRD earlier. Bloody Ridge, moto EuroCorps, armored Commonwealth, mech scandi, general Israel, vs armored Soviet, mot Baltic, airborne Soviet and general Yugo. Whole lot of variety in that line up. Hell I can run general EC, or armored EC, or moto EC on Bloody in team games. There's a fair number of ways to work a given coalition or what not. "But you'll use a lot of the same..." and that isn't going to eventually happen in Steel Division as well? Please.

Give SDN enough time and I'm going to be laughing when this vaulted "better customization" in SDN turns into exactly how it is in WGRD, with a whole lot of cookie cutter builds. I've already seen and watched enough 1v1 matches where airborne decks dominated in SDN, and yet people were going "muh better customization."

Seriously, just stop. Trying to make such bold statements is just laughable.

"I like Steel Division more, and I've only spent 10 minutes on each Wargame title..."

mmmkay, so you prefer WW2 settings more? WW2 is a massive turnoff for me, but I like some of the new mechanics that I'm hoping the player base picks back up sometime soon. I'm still considering getting the game because of some of new features.

oh hey i am going to play eb!!!!!!! ok now i switched to entente and i have access to such amazing flavour as the super 80 kmh tank, the cloaker tank, the 1 pump chump there goes your superheavy jet (XDDDD love this part of the game)... oh shit but i dont have BTRs. that is the extent of difference u are talking between those nations up there. in SD there is significant playstyle difference between each and every deck even of the same spec. it has true flavour, that is why it is better than RD.

RD throughout the vast majority of its life had quite a static and boring meta and frankly general gameplay. it took 4 DLC nations and a shitload of balance patches to get it to a good spot. and don't forget the actual #1 way to play red dragon was and still is heli rushing :)

Entente doesn't have BTRs? Not sure if serious or just sarcasm, but if serious then someone definitely has no clue wtf they are talking about.

also, I don't know about you, but the "static" and "boring" gameplay comes from playing destruction. Destruction is cancerously boring and slow and dull and always puts me to sleep. Conquest on the other hand is fast and brutal and infinitely more exciting. Stop playing destruction and play more conquest.

Also, you are welcome for Wargame giving EUGEN a lot of experience on balancing. Of course, this cookie cutter stuff you are complaining about WGRD having, well I've already covered that. SDN is going to have it as well, just wait and see.

its like 50-80% depending on the deck. and at top ranked each deck between players had little variation. even your own decks look almost exactly like mine for their respective modes. i also find it really funny you love RD for its tactical diversity yet 90% of top do the exact same general strats every single match on every single map even between different factions.

Muh SDN variety! :rolleyes: Never mind how 1v1 boiled down to insanely similar airborne decks everywhere for a hot minute there! Never mind that and how something similar is going to happen again! We'll eventually get to the Promised Land with enough balance patches!

You know, it's funny, I've watched these forums enough that people have already talked about as long as there are a handful of decks that are viable, the game will be fine. Balance patches become rarer and rarer, and the meta settles, and those who can really pick apart the game figure it out, you'll see the same stagnation in Steel Division just like in the Wargame series. People will have figured out which units are decent, which are trash and rarely if ever worth taking, and so on.

If you don't think so you are just lying to yourself.

Team games will encourage a bit more variety in decks in SDN, just like it does in WGRD.
 

Kampfkekskrieger

First Lieutenant
Mar 1, 2017
244
0
Balance patches become rarer and rarer, and the meta settles, and those who can really pick apart the game figure it out, you'll see the same stagnation in Steel Division just like in the Wargame series. People will have figured out which units are decent, which are trash and rarely if ever worth taking, and so on.

If you don't think so you are just lying to yourself.

Different units require different skills, and while a lot of players use the same decks, its in my opinion, because they did not discover half of the units (you also have a lot to test through), but while they look the same on the surface, their differences matter, the more you get into the game, because you must use different units sooner or later to get different tactics, otherwise you play static, and ALL kinds of static game playing becomes circumvented as you play longer, certainly if you rank up and you play against the same players more often.
While on the green mat, where the crowd of the people play, the 'better decks' get shared and played and recommended, the most efficient strategy changes SO fast, that I never had the same deck for more than 1 game mostly, because you are always at adapting all the time to stay up with your increasing skills.

It only stays static, if you dont increase. The decks that are played by beginners and experts alike can easily be tricked out with other play styles that counter them!
The ONE THING that is massively suppressing this variety is NOT the game despite the balance can still be a lot better, and already got worked over years(!), which is a part of the matter, but the other is, that certain players recommend certain strategies, rise their own into the sky and explain you this is the best and this is the end I know everything and nothing gets better than me.

But this is not the case! I have seen a VERY THICK emotional factor if you come to them with other strategies! They do EVERYTHING to keep you from using other strategies, and talk you down until the earth quakes. Most people believe or obey those players because they have better win skills, and do or have to follow them, because its sold as the only solution!

But FEAR the day, the players of Wargame Red dragon mostly, but also of Steel division, recognize, that the big sheeps have gaping weaknesses, I SAW them all, ALL those weaknesses, but I could not play them because of emotional factors!
ONLY my mercy has kept this secret secret. But the people will find it out and the same game becomes less static! :)
 

Drang

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You can because of that see that I cannot engage savely with anything besides the heavy tanks, because weaker vehicles cannot reach the danger zone, they have to stay back so the King tiger has to fight alone (or heavy tanks) and 380 points will often mean less support or waiting more time until the next 380 points go into support. Despite that I had some (enough) support! I even used planes, I could also have had artillery instead, just imagine that.

Bollocks. If weaker vehicles, to whit, everything in game, cannot go into the danger zone, then how in the name of fuck do Allied decks push?

You SEE how easily one can close up with his king tiger

By having a points advantage (hard AI), being right next to one's reinforcement zones, and by spamming around 1500pts of AT assets for the KT to eat, before you make the rookie mistake of moving your Tiger I away from the KT, leaving it exposed enough that a lucky 17lber manages a side shot.
Even then, I have no idea why you reversed it away at 45 degrees from the 17lber.

You SEE! How easily I get strapped off my support,

Except you didn't; you just didn't keep it close enough to the KT.

and the Allies eats my shell,

wut

so you HAVE to use your king tiger in those situations no matter what you do! You cannot avoid it!

No, you choose to use it because it's an easy option to kill 1500pts of enemy units and to push through a defensive line with utter impunity; which is exactly what you did.


Of course you can draw back and support the king tiger, but that costs you time.
You NEED to buy that time somehow, otherwise you loose victory points advantage.

Nonsense; you already had the territorial advantage. You had no need to push further.


So once given, the Allied player is not so silly to let my support alive,

Your support was alive, you just moved it away to fight independently.


which he is VERY capable to neutralize in an impressive speed, you must, taken all into account, sooner or later come to the result that even if I play stronger, NOTHING ELSE than my King tiger, less so the other heavy tanks, can enter a only a bit defended danger zone and while my KT stays more defensive, the Allied player has even MORE time to snip out my support with his impressive frequency of killing, so being aggressive with the king tiger is the thing that you MUST do, because you have it and 380points shall not be a sitting duck otherwise you waste either time or points as long as you dont use it!

Again, this is utter bollocks. Your support element was a 2-vet Tiger I, which was still alive at the time that your first KT got sniped.


So even if I protect my King tiger better, which is already a challenge, and BECOMES a challenge CERTAINLY by the fact that my opponent makes me busy OTHERWISE, the scale of justice impressively turns to the other side, as soon as you as a player get some pressure!

You dont even NOTICE that your King tiger has closed up half the range and you run into some bocage somewhere, be it only a tiny bit, and everybody can setup a pincer trap very easily!

Thanks that you let me explain this! I dont make a secret out of my casualties I am a honest man. I GIVE you your argument if its value proves true!

Again, all your arguments rely on the KT user making a rookie mistake - not having another tank to support the KT, then maneuvering it into a position where the enemy has defilade on it and can hit it's flanks. Just as you did.
 

Kampfkekskrieger

First Lieutenant
Mar 1, 2017
244
0
what you see here are not cookie mistakes but the experiments of a real master pro! (and if not - what does it matter?)
What looks like a lone tank (tiger for example) for you, is a totally different tool, even if it looks the same, if you do some 'seeming' weaknesses intentional, in order to reach something greater!
I am not the most win/kill ratio guy, because I experiment a lot, and you can increase to efficience with EVERY tactic, but you can never increase over the certain point, when you play at maximum speed, the same units, with the ultimate force behind that, if the game mechanics trap you also to the same weaknesses all the time. If someone exploits them, it becomes worse, the more you rely on your win/kill streak so far.
So if YOU play static and the other developes, you win for a while, but you loose EVERYTHING as soon as you stop playing, the same skill does not return. Instead, the one who developes, gets blue punches, heals them up, learns a lot of lessons, and then the point must come, when he counters you, and when he does, you are like jailed, because finding the counter strategy against your maximum skills requires you to drop EVERYTHING you learned and make a totally new castle! For those who rely on it, that hurts. So never go so far.
So being the big boss for some time is very easy with enough training and enough available time for PC, but being the big boss forever requires you to leave one hill to prospect the other, and if you stay on your hill, others will siege your strategy, until they break it, and they can, because they investigated what is for you the unknown.
And you cannot beat the unknown. So you must explore!

Your view can be true for you right now, but its a short moment. If you wait some time, it becomes difficult to hold.
You must always grow. (They even ask you to grow, or they kill you). This is my interesting opinion but you dont need to take it.
 

Drang

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You;

detached a supporting asset from your KT to operate independently
failed to give it close support with reconnissance assets, artillery or air support
left it in a salient, with open fields of fire on both flanks, near the enemy's spawn, failing to clear the enemy infantry from the salient on your left flank.

These are all tactically poor decisions, for any armoured unit.

Again, you substantiate my point. You made serious errors in the maneuvere of your unit, and it died. I have never claimed the KT cannot be killed; merely that to do so requires the using player to make serious, rookie errors. This supports my point.
 

Alte

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Apr 19, 2017
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most of Axis divisions have panzer advantage and xp advantage in phase B and C,allies divisions do not even have advantages in numbers

This nonsense really has to be burried once and for all...most german division are at a disadvantage when it comes to tanks/TDs...

3rd Fallschirmjager have armor advantage...with 1000 meter stugs at B ?

716th with Chars ?

17th SS with a mix of yet again overpriced Stugs and glass cannon Marders, both easy to beat with basic 130 point M10s...

The only 2 divisions that have clear armor advantage before c are Panzer Lehr and 12th SS, or do you think a division has "armor advantage" because you can slap multiple cards of panzer 4s, and in theory, get 20 + tanks out...

...the 116th has jagdpanzer 4s at B (lets count them also as the phase B advantage)

The 21s panzer relies on shitty panzer 4s/Frenchies/Marders, and only gets (weaker) King Tigers at C

So the most usual German tanks or TDs are either glass (Marders), or outranged by phase B Allied TDs and AT guns (panzer 4 G/H/J stug 3 and 4 )


Meanwhile, every Allied division (even airborne) has access to 1200 TDs in the form of M10, or Achilles, the French have M10s at A "because reasons", Scots have Churchills at A, Canadianas have Rams with 12 fuken armor on A...

Please do find me that " German tank advantage" on phase b because i cant fuken find it...
 
Last edited:

Lomak

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I think the german tank superority comes from a comparison of glass allied tanks left after wipe out by pak 41,43 and thus having shitty but alive phase A or B tanks might be considered better than having destroyed slightly better tanks :D

The problem of the allied tanks are that they mostly from the beginning meet hard counter / resistance even at their 1200m range.... whereas against Tiger, Panther or KD that mostly come with 2* there are not that many counter / threats in a 1v1
 
Last edited:

Max_Damage

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german tank superiority? hmmm. between vet sherman 76 and jumbos there is no such thing, really. vet 76 will eat pz4 and stugs for days while jumbo and support HE shermans will 1hko all and any at guns and infantry. Even the damn 101 airborne have ELITE wolverines with 1200m.

I like the brummbars though. However i d have to go through playing 21 pzdiv to use them.
 
Last edited:

Alte

Sergeant
Apr 19, 2017
60
0
I think the german tank superority comes from a comparison of glass allied tanks left after wipe out by pak 41,43 and thus having shitty but alive phase A or B tanks might be considered better than having destroyed slightly better tanks :D

The problem of the allied tanks are that they mostly from the beginning meet hard counter / resistance even at their 1200m range.... whereas against Tiger, Panther or KD that mostly come with 2* there are not that many counter / threats in a 1v1

...and i call your claim utter bullshit


"Glass allied tanks" i cant but laugh... the most common AT gun on the axis side in phase A is the 10 AP 1000 meter range pak 38...yes there are "singles" like the pak 43 or pak 40 in some really odd divisions (read as "their tanks and support are utter crap")....but if anyone faces hard counters to AT guns from the begining..its again Germany.

1200 meter support Cromwels

9 Armor churchils

12 armor rams

8 armor 1200 meter dirt cheap 130 point French M10s (the only German unit that has more than 7 armor on phase A is the unicorn Beute Firefly for 200. So just forget about deploying it, unless it really becomes desperate, you wont have field presence).

phase A attack aircraft

So please enlighten me where are those squishy allied tanks (9-10-15 armor Churchils and Shermans, meanwhile 6-7 armor panzer 3s and Somuas + 1x 11 armor Beute firefly)
 
Last edited:

Fade2Gray

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Different units require different skills, and while a lot of players use the same decks, its in my opinion, because they did not discover half of the units (you also have a lot to test through), but while they look the same on the surface, their differences matter, the more you get into the game, because you must use different units sooner or later to get different tactics, otherwise you play static, and ALL kinds of static game playing becomes circumvented as you play longer, certainly if you rank up and you play against the same players more often.
While on the green mat, where the crowd of the people play, the 'better decks' get shared and played and recommended, the most efficient strategy changes SO fast, that I never had the same deck for more than 1 game mostly, because you are always at adapting all the time to stay up with your increasing skills.

It only stays static, if you dont increase. The decks that are played by beginners and experts alike can easily be tricked out with other play styles that counter them!
The ONE THING that is massively suppressing this variety is NOT the game despite the balance can still be a lot better, and already got worked over years(!), which is a part of the matter, but the other is, that certain players recommend certain strategies, rise their own into the sky and explain you this is the best and this is the end I know everything and nothing gets better than me.

But this is not the case! I have seen a VERY THICK emotional factor if you come to them with other strategies! They do EVERYTHING to keep you from using other strategies, and talk you down until the earth quakes. Most people believe or obey those players because they have better win skills, and do or have to follow them, because its sold as the only solution!

But FEAR the day, the players of Wargame Red dragon mostly, but also of Steel division, recognize, that the big sheeps have gaping weaknesses, I SAW them all, ALL those weaknesses, but I could not play them because of emotional factors!
That is some serious fanboyism, with a dash (ok, a lot more than just a dash) of naivety to top it off.

ONLY my mercy has kept this secret secret. But the people will find it out and the same game becomes less static! :)
Ooookkkkaaaayyyyy then. :rolleyes: