I am your vassal, I gave you one soldier and my hate of you is growing each day!

[akvilon]

Hi all,

enjoying game tremendously.

Though seriously, the situation seems ridiculous:

"I am your vassal, my master, though I am actually pissed off at you because you have power, I don't,
so to show you my attitude I am going to give you this one soldier out of my hundreds, for your campaigns, enjoy, that's all I can do, ha ha!
Though it seems you keep my poor peasant soldier for longest of times! Good excuse to start hating you each month more and more. Return my peasant soldier!!"

On a serious note, shouldn't vassals negative opinion of liege, which is growing -1 the more you hold their levy in your army, be based on the percentage of troops he/she gave to you?

I understand vassal going negative nancy on me each month because hundreds of his troops (which i believe he is paying for) are kept in the field, but few soldiers?

 

[unmerged(392218)]

The percentage of the army given to the liege, is based on the laws and opinion of the vassal.

The -1 thingy is simply time based.

And of course he is pissed, i wouldn't want to pay for your conquests that i have nothing to earn from.

 

[akvilon]

Absolutely, that is exactly what i mentioned, vassal gives that soldier because of his opinion.
But then why would his opinion fall at the same rate as the opinion of the vassal who gave a hundred warriors, not one?

 

[Pandadan]

Well, if I thought you were a dick and gave you a levy of one soldier, I'd expect you to roll your eyes and disband the unit, giving me my soldier back. Not doing so is just a dick move... and will make me hate you more.

Mechanically, of course, the answer is "because the devs didn't think it was worthwhile to scale opinion loss with levy size."

Can CK2 even deal with fractional opinion changes? If not, that would mean a whole system for sliding frequency of opinion change, tracking how long it's been since the last opinion hit, etc..

 

[unmerged(392218)]

Guess it is because he gave what he could spare (compared to how much they want to spare), and over time, what he could spare will annoy him evenly with those who also gave what they could spare!

 

[akvilon]

Can CK2 even deal with fractional opinion changes? If not, that would mean a whole system for sliding frequency of opinion change, tracking how long it's been since the last opinion hit, etc..

Well then, I think you must be kidding sir, Paradox games are famous for fractional changes of variables based on time!

I have not got to the late game, but i believe in most games vassal's army contribution can be substantial, thus I would expect a "dick of a vassal" that gives me little to be happier over time then with a loyal vassal who gave me a lot to be more pissed off over time, no?

 

[macphal]

Here's what you do. First make sure your spymaster is watching out for you. Then you just hold on to that one person even after the war. As your vassals hate rises he will start ploting against you. And when your spymaster finds out what the plot is take down the vassal and have him replaced with a yes man. God i'm loving this game!

 

[DarkieBabZ]

Hi all,

enjoying game tremendously.

Though seriously, the situation seems ridiculous:

"I am your vassal, my master, though I am actually pissed off at you because you have power, I don't,
so to show you my attitude I am going to give you this one soldier out of my hundreds, for your campaigns, enjoy, that's all I can do, ha ha!
Though it seems you keep my poor peasant soldier for longest of times! Good excuse to start hating you each month more and more. Return my peasant soldier!!"

On a serious note, shouldn't vassals negative opinion of liege, which is growing -1 the more you hold their levy in your army, be based on the percentage of troops he/she gave to you?

I understand vassal going negative nancy on me each month because hundreds of his troops (which i believe he is paying for) are kept in the field, but few soldiers?

How dare you keep that poor peasant soldier away from his mom!!! how dare you sir!!! no matter your vassals hate you... I would hate you too if you took my 1 son for a big crusade.....


On a more serious note.

I agree on certain aspects, but I can see why its working the way it is..
The longer you keep soldiers away from their mom = worse relations. "make sense enough for me"
That its the same negative effect if its 1 soldier because your vassal hate you or if its 385 because he loves you, is abit weird I agree... (then again, if you didnt get negative effect from happy vassals that would not make sense either)

So I guess you have to go back and look at my crazy writing at the top. If you keep soldiers away from their mom! they will hate you for it... no matter if its 1 or 385..


In my expirence this has never been much of a problem, if the vassal hate me I normaly don't even bother getting the few soldiers..

 

[Pandadan]

Well then, I think you must be kidding sir, Paradox games are famous for fractional changes of variables based on time!

I have not got to the late game, but i believe in most games vassal's army contribution can be substantial, thus I would expect a "dick of a vassal" that gives me little to be happier over time then with a loyal vassal who gave me a lot to be more pissed off over time, no?

Of course Paradox games can deal with fractional values, I'd just gotten the impression in my few hours playing so far that opinion is only modified by integer values.

 

[Alerias]

Im okay with pure time-based. It works both ways; if they code it to take levy size into account, theyll also code it to take into account how many casualties said levies are taking, Im sure.

I like being able to kill thousands to attrition in the Judean Desert without anyone batting an eyebrow

Tho truth to be told, Id like it if Crusades didnt count for the purpose of levy-hatred.

 

[riknap]

Of course Paradox games can deal with fractional values, I'd just gotten the impression in my few hours playing so far that opinion is only modified by integer values.

maybe it's to simplify the coding and scripts, which in turn makes the game run faster (and easier for players to compute)?
besides, that would mean that large hosts/armies of late-game would need to be disbanded a lot faster than the small hosts of early game, unless paradox also factored in either the time-scale or relative army sizes of the period, both which add further computational weight that isn't that justifiable in reality anyway (because, after all, it is the vassal's duty to provide men for the realm...)
Also, it can be rather exploitable by a late-game start player, who could try improving his base levy numbers to allow him to deteriorate relations with his liege more.

 

[unmerged(129215)]

Clearly your ruler is in love with that one soldier, and won't be happy until his precious Ramone is returned to his arms.