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gnosticadam

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As an experienced PI gamer, I purchased Vicky 2 after reading some glowing reviews, and put it on the shelf while finishing a project. A few weeks ago I had a free weekened, so I purchased AHD and fired it up.
After some hours playing as France, the USA, Chile and Belgium, I shut it off and went back to my EU3 game. Why?

I just don't know how to PLAY. What do I actually do? It seems a lot of the time I am just waiting around for something to happen, until my next technology breakthrough.

Help me! I want to love this game-I absolutely adore the EU Series and Crusader Kings, and I want to love Vicky.

Please give me some tips on what to do to make this game more enjoyable. Am I missing something fundamental?
 

unmerged(220281)

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That is indeed a bit of a weakness of Victoria II - why not try playing as Prussia? It's got a bit of work to it, managing a complex sphere, having to go to war with superpowers, and all that.
 

Bastian420

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Prussia is indeed a good country to play if you don't know what you want to do. Other countries, like France, which is one of my favorite countries to play you have to set your own goals which is what makes France so great since it can do absolutely anything you set your mind to. Prussia however has obvious goals in the decisions about uniting the German people.
 

Thracian

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in eu you waste more time waiting something to happen
you need to set your own goals in vicky
 

Naselus

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As an experienced PI gamer, I purchased Vicky 2 after reading some glowing reviews, and put it on the shelf while finishing a project. A few weeks ago I had a free weekened, so I purchased AHD and fired it up.
After some hours playing as France, the USA, Chile and Belgium, I shut it off and went back to my EU3 game. Why?

I just don't know how to PLAY. What do I actually do? It seems a lot of the time I am just waiting around for something to happen, until my next technology breakthrough.

Help me! I want to love this game-I absolutely adore the EU Series and Crusader Kings, and I want to love Vicky.

Please give me some tips on what to do to make this game more enjoyable. Am I missing something fundamental?

It's a classic first-time player problem - in V2, the country will continue regardless of if you're doing anything or not, and a lot of players pick a nation like the USA or Japan or something, spend 4 hours watching the game play itself on the highest speed, and then come on and say 'I did nothing and I came fifth...'

V2 needs you to set your own objectives. Most of the things you do have subtle effects years down the line - the difference between a 25% tax rate and a 30% tax rate only becomes clear 5-6 years down the line, when your entire poor strata rise up against you for seemingly no reason at all.

You're not all-powerful in the same way you are in EU. Everyone else in the country has an opinion on what's going on, and who should have the vote, and what size the army should be. You can build economic structures, but you're not as good at it as your POPs. Hell, you don't even control most of the tech - you research general fields, but the inventions are randomized. In EU3, you order merchants to go about their business... in V2, you just set up a business-friendly environment and let the merchants do their job themselves.

There's plenty to do, but none of it has to be done - so you can just leave most things up to the game. This is great once you know what you're doing, since you can concentrate on the important bits... but when you're not sure what's going on, the game seems to play itself. The best advice is, just intervene in something. Anything. See what happens when you DO change something, over the long term. It's all about exercising influence over things, rather than outright commanding things.
 

TheGreatSnoop

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I agree with the OP, I've recently started playing Victoria 2, after loving other paradox games, but I honestly can't find anything to do in it. There's the obvious option of declaring war and trying to conquer territories, but that takes military preparation, so I have to wait for that to be achieved.

I can look on production but I can't really see anything worthwhile to change on it, if I did I'd probably only mess things up.

I can research stuff but most of the time, especially since I play as Japan, I'm waiting for years and years while the points build up.

There's diplomacy, but there's not much to do other than 'increase relations' and clicking that all the time isn't exactly interesting.

It just seems like there's nothing to do in the game unless you go to war!? It's not like in CK2 where, when you're not involved in a war, there is still tons to keep you occupied and interested in, such as arranging marriages, keeping an eye of plots, the opinions of vassals, holding events, or plotting against others. No, it just seems that in Victoria 2 we're left in a situation where you either declare war and do that, or you literally just stare at the map and maybe change a few sliders.

I'm not trying to badmouth the game, I really want to love it, I just always find myself, no matter how optimistic I start out, just looking at my country on the map and wishing there was more to keep the player occupied in times of peace, especially for a player like me who plays as Japan, because Japan in the 1830s just seems to be a long case of doing nothing and spending years waiting for those research points to build...
 

am300307

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Play in a multiplayer game for the ultimate v2 experience.
 

SublimeKnight

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Let's see if I can help. Having played for years on EU III and recently CK II. There are many levels to learn on Vicky. The web of alliances, sphere of influence and economy is far more complex then the other games. There is no simple answer to $$ like merchants or specific buildings.

First, read the manual. It is about 60 pages long but pull it up on a tablet or print it out at work and get through it. The game concepts will begin to make sense.

First game I played I did Two Sicilies and tried to Unite Italy. Epic, epic epic fail.

My first game as Argentina I managed to finish the 7th top power, was the leader of South America and was able to conquer Bolivia and much of Brazil. But, upon finishing that game I hadn't even realized I suffered an actual revolution from monarchy to democracy and that was why my pops boomed from immigration from Europe. I had no idea that I could influence other nations using my sphere of influence to dominate the continent.

My point is that you can play an entire game through and still not understand what happened. That is normal. My second game as the Netherlands saw my unite the lowlands, dominate SE Asia and even take significant Chinese territory in the Boxer Rebellion. My web of alliances helped me prepare and eventually get my butt kicked in the Great War against UK. I thought because I had unlimited military pops from Chinese territory and a navy I could win. Wrong. The entire Indian subcontinent owned me. UK had better alliances in their Sphere. They beat me in Africa and Asia. Luckily the game ended. I realized that the log jam or tanks/planes w/o proper availability hurt me. You build those to compliment, not entire armies of them.

At this point, I had not yet learned how to work 'influence' as a great power. I just let it happen. (You click next to a countries name, 1, 2 or 3 boxes for focus). I finished #2 power and didn't even know how SOInfluence worked. Sad but true.

Finally, in my Prussia game I started to learn how things worked. I was ready to colonize Africa at the right time. I had united North German Fed by 1860. Beat down Austra, etc. But I still made mistakes. Winning wars for sphere or influence was great. But I let Saxony and Barvaria grow and they were suddenly 7th/8th power, out of my sphere and I could not unite NFG. Meaning, more war & growing pains.

But, I am finally putting things together. Techs + pops + capitalists to run the factories. You can have plenty built but if you want them to stay open without you paying to subsidize you needs loads of capitalists who have lots of extra cash to pay workers. It takes years to national focus and tax policy but once you get the gist it becomes second nature.

To finish, slow down your games, try to maximize what you can do in your region, expand over non sphere'd uncivilized areas, and learn. It will take 3 or 4 play through's until you are ready to play France and dominate the globe. Then the game becomes very fun and feels more rewarding than EU III or CK II which are more might makes right.
 

Thanik

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In almost all paradox game, when I don't know how to play is very simple solution -> tutorial, manual ,wiki and AAR's.
If this is not enough ,or you want to test some things don't afraid to cheat. This make game less annoying("oh no 20 times after starting game my economy crush...), and you can focus on main things which give you problem.

Sometimes plurality+money can very help, sometimes editing provinces(for example to unite germany by Prussia in 1836) can help too.

Yes I make heavy cheat in early games(espiecially in Viki, Pride of Nations or Hearts of Iron
3),to learn things... but I'm not afraid this fact today:)



And about CK II: for me this game is brain consuming -> plenty of events,traits,skills, people are changing in every postion in 30-50 years),a lot of people, and you must have four eyes in your head.
 

unmerged(236246)

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For me it was the opposite. I was instantly engrossed with Vic 2 from the day I bought it, but now matter how much I want to, I simply can't find it in myself to like CK2, not that I don't think it's a good game. Give it time, it will definitely grow on you.
 

gja102

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As a relative newcomer to Vicky, my main problem is with the economy. Look at all those goods! Look at all that world market activity!

It's great and all, but what am I actually supposed to *do* with it? Where's the strategy? Why isn't it all just abstracted like in other PI games?
 

unmerged(525196)

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I don't understand. With every country I tried I had so much things to do and to micromanage that I'm almost all the time at the lowest speed or often need to pause the game.

Infamy is a hard limitation, you start with 0 infamy and infamy decreases very slowly, so it's a waste of time to stay doing nothing.
At every start of the game, you should have planned a futur conquest and launch it the quickest you can.
Diplomacy is important too, every times you get 2 points of diplomacy it should be used to build up your futur alliances or to prevent some powerfull countries to attack you. Same if you are a great power, you should build up your influence quickly too.
For most countries, keeping your budget in green is hard, especially if you planned a conquest and if you are recruiting new armies our fleets.
Keeping your POPs happy so they are not unemployed or starving or migrating to other countries is hard too.
War is time consuming, you can't win a war doing nothing ... It needs a lot of micro management and a strong strategy.
And building your industry needs a lot of attention too.

There's so many things to do that you cannot stay doing nothing.
You can look at the screen doing nothing in front of all games screens, but like in victoria 2, that doesn't help to win the game.
 

unmerged(200028)

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I can sympathize with the OP because I have had the same problems with this and other games. To me, playing Victoria II seemed just like staring at the screen and doing nothing after a few basic decisions at game start. The game (as well as CKII) looks and feels so deep, engaging and rewarding, and it's highly disappointing when I don't get to experience that. Concerning Victoria II, (even with AHD), most of the mechanics are under the hood and require very little player interaction or management. This used to bother me deeply, and I felt that my ability to enjoy the game had no hope left. Only until recently have I found out how much of a beautiful thing this is, and why Paradox games are some of, if not the best games in the world, (at least IMO). Why is this beautiful to me? I'll give you a comparison:

Take a game such as Civilization, (the series takes second place in my list of favorites, next to Paradox games, so I'm not insulting it, but rather, just comparing it), now think of that game (any of the five), where the whole playing consists of managerial action by the player. You, (if you want to win), will have to go in the same direction (for any given victory condition), almost every game, and all of your decisions will focus on the same, relatively unchanging path from game to game. Civilization is very focused on an unchanging path to victory that the small details affect and comprise, without changing the 'plot' if you will, of the game. In this sense, it is monotonous and static in the grand scheme of things, while the particulars that comprise and culminate into, can change.

So while in Civilization your focus is the particular and immediate aspect of things, that don't much affect each other or the grand outcome of the game, in Victoria, Crusader Kings, or Europa Universalis, the world is fluid and interactive, where even the smallest of decisions affect the rest of the game, no matter to how small of a degree. The current situation of the game is immensely influenced by the decisions made by all other polities. Thus, your strategies in the game will not be a matter of memorizing a thing to do that will be applicable to every game, but one of watching how the world developes. In this way, certain strategies will always be situation specific, and when the situation varies widely in an interactive and dynamic way, and your strategies also influence the situation, this makes the game very 'alive' and moves away from the repetitious monotony that most other strategy games have. It is also quite realistic in this respect, and the realism of the alternate history of the game gives it plausibility and a very interesting experience. Your playing of the game should be mostly observation of the world and how it developes and changes. It is not about incessant, consequtive decisions, but, rather, few, pivotal ones when the time is ripe. The game rewards the patient and watchful player. Seeing what happens and how the game runs through each time, at least to me, is perhaps half the fun of playing.

When you're at a loss as to what to do, you should read more messages, and see how the rest of the world is changing and developing. Study the ledger, and see all of the current wars and such. Look not only at your own nation, but at the whole world, set your goal, and while waiting, find the proper time to execute your strategy. The game should open up to you if you do this, and it should be a lot more fun.
 

IGGEL

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Here's a general overview of the mechanics, if you need it.
The economy is one of supply and demand. Check the trade screen and look around for goods that have more demand than supply in your nation. Build a factory that produces said good or sphere a nation that produces said good.

High taxes deprive people of money, which keeps them from getting stuff. not having life needs increases their militancy.
Low taxes allow people to get luxury needs, which increases consciousness. high consciousness increases emigration from you country and plurality; which increases research points.
Education, administration, and military funding encourage people to become clergymen, bureaucrats, and soldiers/officers respectively
Stockpile is how much stuff you want to buy. This is for government projects (factories, RR, etc..), and the military (an under-supplied soldier has less morale

Infamy is annoying.
Diplomacy is messed up.
Get PDM.
 

freeaxle

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Victoria is my favourite PI title and it is a very different beast to the others. To the OP I'd say this - unlike EU (and to a lesser extent) CK, you are not an all-powerfull guiding spirit, able to change a nation at a heartbeat. In Victoria you are more like a politician, or a bureaucrat. You don't tell you're country what to do, you coax, cajole and occasionally threaten it to get it on the right path. Victoria II is all about setting the conditions for change, not pressing a button to force it. Yes, you can sit and do nothing, and you're country will chug along. Some will even do fairly decently without you at the helm. In that sense it is realistic - a country will go on without a great leader, but it won't meet it's potential.

As has already been suggested, read the manual, it'll give you a great idea of the mechanics and how to influence them. Read the forums - and ask questions. The Victoria community has a good number of members with a good idea of how everything works and are willing to explain it. The key is to experiment a little. My advise would actually be to start as Two-Sicilies. It is a nation with good potential, but starts with very few advantages. It'll really respond to what you do (or fail to do) by the end. Personally, I would suggest playing a few games where you don't expand but focus on creating the best economy you can. One of my best games was taking Haiti and (without expanding territorially) creating the most modern and richest (per capita) nation by game's end.
 

The_13th_Ronin

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You set your own goals in Vicky 2. Do you want your nation to grow to be a Superpower? Or maybe just to survive the transition into the 20th century as an absolute monarchy. Do you want to fully industrialize? Etc, etc.

Once you understand the dynamics of the game it will captivate you. I mean which other game actually makes you FEEL the affect of war? In Vicky 2 if you waste 500,000 soldiers in an ultra destructive war that is actually 500,000 real (as far as the game is concerned) people who just died and are not able to produce or consume, etc... They are gone from your manpower pool permanently (at least until replaced by fresh people coming of age). The economy is intricate and means that sphering other nations with the resources you need will lead to your success or failure in industry.

Prussia is indeed a good starting country. I am playing a really good Prussia > NGF > German Empire game right now. I'll post a picture in the screenshot thread when I'm done. I am actually outproducing Britain and the only power capable of stopping me is Russia with its massive 900 point army vs my only 800 point (I took most of Austria-Hungary off them) and managed to sphere Spain, Sardina Piemont, The Ottoman Empire, Romania and a whole bunch of Latin American countries.
 

magitsu

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Open up trade screen. Build up first to meet gov. demand (which are bought by the rate of your national stockpile slider) and pop. demand. Then when you become competitive (com/ind techs, exclusive access to raw goods...) start worrying about global supply/demand. Just steer clear of military goods and some niche items which are controlled by other GPs (like fabric, which needs dye, which you won't get if you are not UK/NED).

Do not tariff, do not subsidize - unless you absolutely need to. In long term it will spell trouble.

Get access to more raw materials and markets. Prestige is important, but won't help you if most sought after resources (rubber, oil, iron, coal...) are locked inside foreign sphere.
 
Last edited:

gnosticadam

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Well thank you all for your great replies, many of you have given me some food for thought and some fantastic ideas.
I intend to fire up another game shortly (as either Belgium or Two Sicilies) and see if I can try some of what has been suggested.
Thank you Paradox Community-a great bunch!