I Almost Cried...

[thexmassteam]

Sounds like a good idea.

Not tested in 1.4.x, only 1.3.3 and prior. And I don't plan any vanilla game in 1.4.x but I don't know if there is major change in naval warfare so it could still work (don't think but don't remember the patchlog enough to be sure)

 

[ltccone]

Now I'm wondering if "convoy escort" mission doesn't properly recognise invasion transports, as opposed to trade convoys.

Hmmm... maybe you have a point. All transports are equal, but some transports are more equal than others.

 

[Louella]

Hmmm... maybe you have a point. All transports are equal, but some transports are more equal than others.

Maybe. It wouldn't be the first time that something weird happens under particular circumstances.

Strange though, that your ships didn't pile in anyway. In my experience, I've seen submarines engage convoys (some of which I'm sure were troop transports), and then navies from both sides pile in to support. Like, every active fleet in the region, regardless of what orders they had.

 

[ltccone]

Maybe. It wouldn't be the first time that something weird happens under particular circumstances.

Strange though, that your ships didn't pile in anyway. In my experience, I've seen submarines engage convoys (some of which I'm sure were troop transports), and then navies from both sides pile in to support. Like, every active fleet in the region, regardless of what orders they had.

They were 'there,' they just didn't engage.

 

[Emren]

As Germany I had just launched Barbarossa. As part of that invasion I had 10 Marine Brigades launch an amphib assault on Leningrad. I had 400 naval bombers covered by 200 fighters in the Baltic. I had 6 battleships, 8 cruisers, and 40 destroyers on convoys escort duty.

Despite all of that the Red Navy had no problem engaging my convoys with 8 surface ships and a dozen subs.

I watched over two agonizing weeks as one convoy after another was sunk. All of my ships and all of my planes couldn't stop it, and the Red Navy wasn't even taking damage.

After the last convoy was sunk and all of my Marines drowned, THEN a new battle started and my planes and ships started punishing the Soviets.

Those poor Marines didn't even show up in the casualty count.

I'm getting the last laugh though; in 16 days my panzers are crossing the Neva east of Lenningrad, east of Smolensk and Rostov, Baku and Astrakan have fallen from the south, and Sevastopol fell to an amphib assault to other Marines. The casualty count is 3k to 1.8 million.

Ouch. And to add insult to injury, I am currently playing a Finland game, where I, in 1941, used a single destroyer to escort two Marine divisions to land behind the Mannerheim line (which I failed to hold in 1939, and which I had built up to lvl 5 forts). The Soviet navy was busy in the Baltic fighting the German navy, so I thought "what the heck, I'll try".

As it turned out, the line itself was completely empty, and Leningrad was quickly secured.

 

[ltccone]

Ouch. And to add insult to injury, I am currently playing a Finland game, where I, in 1941, used a single destroyer to escort two Marine divisions to land behind the Mannerheim line (which I failed to hold in 1939, and which I had built up to lvl 5 forts). The Soviet navy was busy in the Baltic fighting the German navy, so I thought "what the heck, I'll try".

As it turned out, the line itself was completely empty, and Leningrad was quickly secured.

Some people have all the luck. I've launched 4 more invasions in the Med after the Soviets capitulated, and they all worked as advertised. I guess I just had some bad luck.

I have to invade the US and Australia to defeat the Allies, so I have a lot more invading to do!

 

[Callenalle]

The casualty count is 3k to 1.8 million.

Are you talking about the entire operation? How did you go around the hundreds of thousands of attrition casualties?

 

[balmung60]

Are you talking about the entire operation? How did you go around the hundreds of thousands of attrition casualties?

Attrition doesn't kill soldiers, it just breaks equipment.

 

[ltccone]

Are you talking about the entire operation? How did you go around the hundreds of thousands of attrition casualties?

Yes; the final count was 5k to 3.92 million for the entire 6 week or so campaign.

Attrition doesn't kill soldiers, it just breaks equipment.

Correct; I lost a LOT of equpiment to attrition.

 

[Emren]

Some people have all the luck. I've launched 4 more invasions in the Med after the Soviets capitulated, and they all worked as advertised. I guess I just had some bad luck.

I have to invade the US and Australia to defeat the Allies, so I have a lot more invading to do!

I guess that one lesson to take home is to hold off on the invasion until the main enemy fleet is engaged with your own main fleet. And if possible, assign another, smaller fleet to sail along the invasion path.

 

[Lykanion]

In earlier patches I noticed that my fleets on "convoy escort" missions would join the battle but stay at the back while the enemy sunk my transports. I got much better results with fleets set on "search and destroy" missions. These would engage the enemy and save my transports.

Since then I'm alway using search and destroy or patrol, never bothered with convoy escort again.

 

[ltccone]

I guess that one lesson to take home is to hold off on the invasion until the main enemy fleet is engaged with your own main fleet. And if possible, assign another, smaller fleet to sail along the invasion path.

That is exactly what I'm going to do from now on!

In earlier patches I noticed that my fleets on "convoy escort" missions would join the battle but stay at the back while the enemy sunk my transports. I got much better results with fleets set on "search and destroy" missions. These would engage the enemy and save my transports.

Since then I'm alway using search and destroy or patrol, never bothered with convoy escort again.

That is what happened to me. I had 60+ destroyers, cruisers, and battelships on convoy escort; they joined the battle, but did not engage. As far as I know no patch has really changed naval warfare any.

I think the solution is to have ships on both convoy escort AND search and destroy/patrol. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

 

[Alexlazer]

5K to 4 million. God damn boy.

 

[ltccone]

5K to 4 million. God damn boy.

I did have those 51k Marines that drowned that aren't counted though. Still, I'll take it. Kesselschlachts are the key; don't fight WW1...

 

[Tisifoni12]

Today I tried to invade Britain. Air superiority, one fleet on search and destroy in the channel, another on convoy escort.

Big see battle, with both fleets engaged, invasion fleet sails past. Then is caught a few miles off the coast of Kent by a few subs, also aircraft. Held there for something in excess of a week until entire fleet and 10 divisions sunk.

The distance from Dunkerque to Essex is about 50m/80km.

1. It takes hours to cross the channel not days.
2. If an invasion fleet were intercepted and disrupted surely it would abort.
3. If you have two fleets detailed one to engage the enemy and the other to protect the invasion fleet then surely they are going to attempt to perform those separate functions.

 

[ltccone]

Today I tried to invade Britain. Air superiority, one fleet on search and destroy in the channel, another on convoy escort.

Big see battle, with both fleets engaged, invasion fleet sails past. Then is caught a few miles off the coast of Kent by a few subs, also aircraft. Held there for something in excess of a week until entire fleet and 10 divisions sunk.

The distance from Dunkerque to Essex is about 50m/80km.

1. It takes hours to cross the channel not days.
2. If an invasion fleet were intercepted and disrupted surely it would abort.
3. If you have two fleets detailed one to engage the enemy and the other to protect the invasion fleet then surely they are going to attempt to perform those separate functions.

I hope this is something that is changed in 1.4.2, or later.

 

[Emren]

Today I tried to invade Britain. Air superiority, one fleet on search and destroy in the channel, another on convoy escort.

Big see battle, with both fleets engaged, invasion fleet sails past. Then is caught a few miles off the coast of Kent by a few subs, also aircraft. Held there for something in excess of a week until entire fleet and 10 divisions sunk.

The distance from Dunkerque to Essex is about 50m/80km.

1. It takes hours to cross the channel not days.
2. If an invasion fleet were intercepted and disrupted surely it would abort.
3. If you have two fleets detailed one to engage the enemy and the other to protect the invasion fleet then surely they are going to attempt to perform those separate functions.

I think the problem with the escort mission is that it doesn't actually escort anything. My impression is that the fleet will just bounce around the zone and look for convoy raiders. The ships on patrol don't know that you are about to start an amphimbious operation, and therefore they might be at the opposite end of the zone when you launch the invasion. If your invasion force is then intercepted, it might be quite some time before the escort fleet arrives to help out - if it comes at all.

I think we need a new mission, an Invasion mission. This mission will attach the designated fleet to the actual invasion force, and sail at the same speed and in the same sea tiles. So basically, an actual escort mission.

 

[Tisifoni12]

I think we need a new mission, an Invasion mission.

Essentially 'Invasion Support'; for some ships that might involve preparatory or support bombardment (probably the larger ships, BB, BC, CA), for others it might mean a screening role (DD, CL).