Hyper-Inflation

[Dinsdale]

Just started a new 1.07 game with Castille. It's now 1450 and inflation is already 21.7% The number of random stab hits are approaching the level of 1.0, and the addition of paying for the priviledge of not escalating a boundary dispute has been draining the treasury at least once a year. In fact, the occurence of random events is greater than I can ever remember.

Despite all that, Castille is rich enough to fend most problems off, one of the reasons I like to play a new patch with her. Inflation though is becomming ridiculous. I'm estimating that it will be around 90-100% by the time governors are available.

While inflation is running out of control for me, I dread to think the affect my inflation is having on the rest of the world. Since AI inflation is tied to the human, the acutal affect of of my woes is very little. Relatively speaking, I will be in a better position to deal with the problem than the AI.

So I ask; what is the point? Why make inflation skyrocket when it's practical results will be financial problems for the rest of the world?

 

[N Katsyev]

Hmm... i'm beginning to wonder, why tie AI inflation to the player at all?

 

[JohnMK]

Well you know it's all caused by Toledo right? In any event -- the beta patches solve that. The threshold is much higher, so Castile shouldn't start off with gold inflation even in 1419. I'm not sure about Austria though.

 

[JohnMK]

Originally posted by N Katsyev
Hmm... i'm beginning to wonder, why tie AI inflation to the player at all?

At least in the betas it doesn't appear to be anymore.

 

[Prince Eugene]

Originally posted by N Katsyev
Hmm... i'm beginning to wonder, why tie AI inflation to the player at all?

I believe it was originally intended to lower AI inflation as humans lower theirs. The side effect was that it also went up with human inflation...

 

[Alyosha]

21% in 1450, huh? I maxed out at 16.4% and its 1509 now, with it dropped to 12.4% (Fugger's event). I don't know why people don't bring that treasury slider all the way down with major nations. Most will bring an income of at least 90 ducats a year with the treasury slider at 0, and your tech grows faster anyway. I can't stand inflation, but obviously with Spain/Castille it must be accepted as there's no way to get around it in the beginning, or when one conquers those Aztec provinces. Once those southern provinces turn Catholic, and you set up tax collectors, the only inflation you'll get for a while is treasury slider related. Maybe prepare your economy for the inlfation hit from the Aztecs by building up other areas before taking that huge bite.

 

[chegitz guevara]

Europe had hyper-inflation.

 

[Dinsdale]

Originally posted by Alyosha
21% in 1450, huh? I maxed out at 16.4% and its 1509 now, with it dropped to 12.4% (Fugger's event). I don't know why people don't bring that treasury slider all the way down with major nations. Most will bring an income of at least 90 ducats a year with the treasury slider at 0, and your tech grows faster anyway. I can't stand inflation, but obviously with Spain/Castille it must be accepted as there's no way to get around it in the beginning, or when one conquers those Aztec provinces. Once those southern provinces turn Catholic, and you set up tax collectors, the only inflation you'll get for a while is treasury slider related. Maybe prepare your economy for the inlfation hit from the Aztecs by building up other areas before taking that huge bite.

Slider has been close to 0 since the beginning. 0.56% per year (nice improvement to be able to see this BTW) is from gold.

The point about inflation though is that it really is innefective and means nothing. What will happen is that forts and infra improvements are more expensivel; so what....

 

[JohnMK]

It is a little unnerving sometimes, the # of people who feel they deserve 0% inflation and an average of +3 stability.

But that's not the case here, I think his main point is about the AI and how it handles the now non-existent (or at least less existent) tie to human inflation.

 

[JohnMK]

Originally posted by Dinsdale

The point about inflation though is that it really is innefective and means nothing. What will happen is that forts and infra improvements are more expensivel; so what....

It also affects tech costs.

 

[TheLoneTaco]

in my recent experience with april 3rd beta, bankruptcies cause the most havok on the AI. for instance, venice has had constant economic problems, and consequentially have 900% plus inflation. before being annexed by spain, portugal had over 1000%, but that was also due to gold. spain has about 500%, byz (before being annexed) also had more than 1000% for the same reason.

i have about 29% as the papal states in 1620, and that is due to minting money and I GUESS venice, those bastards, and thier 900% inflation. normally i never get over 10%, but that is with majors

-Matt

 

[unmerged(10355)]

21% over the course of 30 years isn't hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is when you get hundreds or thousands of percent inflation per year. That doesn't happen in EU2, of course, but nor does EU2's inflation system have anything to do with real-life inflation.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Originally posted by TheLoneTaco
in my recent experience with april 3rd beta, bankruptcies cause the most havok on the AI. for instance, venice has had constant economic problems, and consequentially have 900% plus inflation. before being annexed by spain, portugal had over 1000%, but that was also due to gold. spain has about 500%, byz (before being annexed) also had more than 1000% for the same reason.

i have about 29% as the papal states in 1620, and that is due to minting money and I GUESS venice, those bastards, and thier 900% inflation. normally i never get over 10%, but that is with majors

-Matt

This is serious, very serious. Many months and patches ago this was a general problem in EU2. But Johan fixed it - whatever the reason for it was then.

If this is back now, that AI nation can't handle their economy and end up with several hundred of percents of inflation, then they are practically dead in the struggle for survival and will be easily beaten. And all of this is unreal. In real life a state would never have a severly higher price level than its neighbours. It is totally unrealistic.

This must be adressed if it is a general problem in the new patches.

 

[kurtbrian]

Originally posted by Daniel A
...And all of this is unreal. In real life a state would never have a severly higher price level than its neighbours. It is totally unrealistic.

I point you to germany after the first world war.....

 

[Johan]

21.7% after 40 years is not hyper-inflation.

 

[Mowers]

Originally posted by Johan
21.7% after 40 years is not hyper-inflation.

*chuckle*

People have had it good for too long.

Welcome to the brand new world of inflation and not being land tech 104 by 1678.

Although there are still incidents of the AI inflation stumbling out of control. Check Eire in Tsumai, I think it needs to know when to cut back on expenses.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Originally posted by Mowers
*chuckle*

People have had it good for too long.

Well, yes. It might also be an idea to reduce the inflation deduction from the "Exceptional year" random events in later years from -10% and -15% to a uniform -5%.

The way governors work now, getting just a single -15% event is the equivalent of six decades of good work by governors, making those two random events the most unbalanced good ones in the entire random event set - and a potential gamebreaker in MP.

(Hmmm. Or has it already been changed in the latest betas? Must check later today)

 

[Dinsdale]

Originally posted by Mowers
*chuckle*

People have had it good for too long.

Welcome to the brand new world of inflation and not being land tech 104 by 1678.

Although there are still incidents of the AI inflation stumbling out of control. Check Eire in Tsumai, I think it needs to know when to cut back on expenses.

Exotrapolating this forward until governors it will be >100. Compared to previously, that is hyper-inflation. Again, it will mean nothing for Castille to pay double prices, but what will this do to say Savoy or Milan?

Should I ever start taking cash from monthly income (which I will have to at some point) and through loans, I would guess my inflation will hit 120-130 before I can bring it under control.

Again, the actual figure means very little, whether the game is intended for inflation to run at 30% or 300%, all nations are in the same boat, so the actual figure means what?

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Originally posted by kurtbrian
I point you to germany after the first world war.....

I'm talking about price level here KurtBrian. Not real inflation. Real inflation is normally evened out by currency alterations between nations. But that does not work in EU.

If nation A in EU has 100% inflation and it's neighbour B 0% then everything will cost the double amount of money for A and it will lose in every aspect, tech advancement, soldier's maintenance etc.

In real life 100% inflation will make your society instabile, cause money to change owner etc but the national product in real terms will not be changed. The wealth of your nation will not be altered just because of the inflation (in other respects than those I pointed at in the beginning of this paragraph).

In real life, if a price level in nation A was much higher than in nation B, then the citizens in land A would start buying their things from land B and thus the price level would fall.

---------

Nations with permanent hyperinflation are dead ducks in EU2 and this spoils some of the fun of the game I believe (besides being entirely unrealistic)

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Originally posted by Johan
21.7% after 40 years is not hyper-inflation.

Johan!

As you could see in the post I cited the inflation that had been observed by that poster was not 21,7 (which was the inflation noted by the starter of the thread) but inflation of 900% and of 1000%!