Hybrid traits

[orko2020]

There are certain personality traits which I wish were in the game, but can't really be included in the game because they are partially represented by other traits. Traits like tolerance, caution, ruthlessness. Caution possibly partially covered by Craven, for example, and ruthlessness by Cruel, even though these are not the exact same things. How about, instead, if a character holds several specific traits, then they can be combined to create pre-scripted hybrid traits? This would work by having an event with a random chance to fire when you gain specific traits, which then allows you to either keep your old traits, or discard two of them in favor of a new hybrid trait. So, for example, if you have both craven and patient, after a while an event will fire allowing you to choose whether you want to discard these two in favor of the new trait Cautious (though this is only optional, of course). In order to make this more than just a cosmetic thing, maybe the new traits can give you brand new abilities and decisions which the previous base traits can't give you, like maybe the Tolerant trait allows you to invite more Jews to your realm, or to increase your tolerance tech more easily.

 

[Rags17]

Trait modding is dead simple, so if you wanted to make your own you could do it in a few hours. As you pointed out though a lot of decisions, events etc are tied to the existing traits so if you did managed to replace your Craven Patient character with a Tolerant one then all of those vents, modifiers etc would cease to exist.

Simply making up the new traits can be fun all by itself, I always play with a personal micro mod that distinguishes female characters by their "endowments", various other mods add all sorts of colourful traits to the game - check out the modding forum and Steam for details.

 

[Tryvenyal]

I really like the idea of mixing 2 traits to one new with mayby less inpact but a stable one as it´s personality and can't be lost.

....Maybe the first two should not even be removed?

 

[Rags17]

I really like the idea of mixing 2 traits to one new with maybe less impact but a stable one as it´s personality and can't be lost.

....Maybe the first two should not even be removed?

Now THAT'S a great idea ! Keep the two original traits so you get all the bonuses, maluses and events, then add a new "bonus" trait if the charactermeets certain requirements. To use the OP's example, maybe a character with Craven and Shrewd might get Patient, Cruel and Ambitious might yield Malicious etc.

This could be fun to play.

 

[Tryvenyal]

Now THAT'S a great idea ! Keep the two original traits so you get all the bonuses, maluses and events, then add a new "bonus" trait if the charactermeets certain requirements. To use the OP's example, maybe a character with Craven and Shrewd might get Patient, Cruel and Ambitious might yield Malicious etc.

This could be fun to play.

Yes, by keeping the triggering traits, the personality merge trait does not have to "cover up" for the traits it removes. I don't think the merge-traits should be very powerfull but instead effect the game and AI weighting and tactics, if applicable. There can also be flavour events and possibly decisions triggering from personality traits.

 

[Slime99]

Maybe there should also be "clashing" traits. For example someone who's content but greedy could have an event fire where the character has to pick between the two. Other examples would be Kind/wroth, gregarious/shy, envious/content...

 

[Tryvenyal]

Maybe there should also be "clashing" traits. For example someone who's content but greedy could have an event fire where the character has to pick between the two. Other examples would be Kind/wroth, gregarious/shy, envious/content...

Doesn't game handle these with traits beeing incompatable? Or do you mean "claching but not incompatable"? For example, Gregarious and Shy is incompatable(I´m quite sure?) meaning adding one removes the other.

There could be a flag like incompatable in trait config where other traits can be listed. of you have 2 trats listed as hard-combined, there is a risk of an event that lets you pick one to remove. Sounds a bit beefy though, "Hmm... Should I remove Kind or Wroth? Which one suits my current needs best?" Maybe it could insted offer player to remove one at random and gain a small amount of prestige or keep both at a avarage prestige cost?

 

[Slime99]

Doesn't game handle these with traits beeing incompatable? Or do you mean "claching but not incompatable"? For example, Gregarious and Shy is incompatable(I´m quite sure?) meaning adding one removes the other.

There could be a flag like incompatable in trait config where other traits can be listed. of you have 2 trats listed as hard-combined, there is a risk of an event that lets you pick one to remove. Sounds a bit beefy though, "Hmm... Should I remove Kind or Wroth? Which one suits my current needs best?" Maybe it could insted offer player to remove one at random and gain a small amount of prestige or keep both at a avarage prestige cost?

Maybe the events could have a third option with a malus/bonus and it probably shouldn't 100% chance of losing either traits. For example if someone is a shy gregarious, an event could pop up where the character could decide to keep gregarious with a chance of losing shy, but also a chance of becoming stressed.

 

[Rags17]

Doesn't game handle these with traits being incompatible? Or do you mean "clashing but not incompatible"? For example, Gregarious and Shy is incompatible(I´m quite sure?) meaning adding one removes the other.

There could be a flag like incompatible in trait config where other traits can be listed. of you have 2 traits listed as hard-combined, there is a risk of an event that lets you pick one to remove. Sounds a bit beefy though, "Hmm... Should I remove Kind or Wroth? Which one suits my current needs best?" Maybe it could instead offer player to remove one at random and gain a small amount of prestige or keep both at an average prestige cost?

The game already allows you to define "opposites" for various traits, I think what we are looking at is not opposites per se but traits that might not work well together or which would cause internal conflict to the holder, eg Greedy and Shy or Ambitious and Craven.

The bottom line is that if this introduced as a set of bonus traits that may or may not appear for holders of certain trait combos, PLUS some associated events/decisions for holders of the new traits then the possibilities are quite literally endless.

 

[Tryvenyal]

The game already allows you to define "opposites" for various traits, I think what we are looking at is not opposites per se but traits that might not work well together or which would cause internal conflict to the holder, eg Greedy and Shy or Ambitious and Craven.

"Opposites" is the correct term to use, That´s what I ment with the more techy term "Incompatable".

The bottom line is that if this introduced as a set of bonus traits that may or may not appear for holders of certain trait combos, PLUS some associated events/decisions for holders of the new traits then the possibilities are quite literally endless.

Yes, sounds like a set of personality traits(5-10) and and 2-3 events related to each of them is a small thing to do both for developers and modders. Personally, I hope a game feature.

 

[Rags17]

If you can define it I can mod it. Come up with 10 new personality traits, what trait pairs are required to generate them, what other limits apply to getting them (eg min/max prestige, also has the Stressed trait, has 3 or more rivals etc) and any ideas you might have on an event or event chain associated with each new trait and I'll get to work next week.

Example - Craven and Patient => Cautious (+1 Diplomacy, -1 Martial, +2 Intrigue, Opposite = Wroth), possibly triggered whenever character has 2+ Rivals OR has 2+ active wars. Is prerequisite for an event that uncovers any active assassination plot against you.

 

[Tryvenyal]

Cool! I am not sure I want them to have regular traits as opposites, though. I have started a list below but have to do something else now. Will complete the alt triggers and events associated hopefully today or tomorrow. Please comment on this traits so I might adjust/rebalance and above all get a notification

Craven + Patient => Cautious (+1 Diplomacy, -1 Martial, +2 Intrigue, Opposite = Ruthless) Alt Trigger: Whenever character has 2+ Rivals OR has 2+ active defensive wars. Benedicial Event: Event that uncovers any active assassination plot against you. Bad event: Bored - The boring cautious life might make you depressed unless you choose to lose Cautions and one random trigger.
Brave + Wroth => Ruthless (-1 Diplomacy, +3 Martial, Opposite = Cautious) Alt Trigger: Slay someone in combat or battle(Be mentionened in his reason of death) Beneficial Event: Event where you get an opportunity to unprovoced attack a courtier who you hate(<-75 Opinion) with a few outcomes that harmes the opponent in different degrees. Bad event: Favourfull event where the ruthless character badly harmes himself. He may choose to change his life and by removing "ruthless" + 1 random trigger to avoid a additional health- malus as nobody dares touching the maniac.
Trusting + Kind => Benevolent(+2 Diplomacy, +1 Stewardship -1 Intrigue, Opposite = Skuldugger)
Paranoid + Envious => Skuldugger(-1 Diplomacy, +1 Stewardship, +2 Intrigue, Opposite = Benevolent)
Content + Humble => Joyfull(+1 Diplomacy, -1 Intrigue, +10% Fertility Opposite = Determined)
Ambitious + Proud => Determined(-1 Diplomacy, +2 Stewardship, +1 Intrigue, Opposite = Joyfull)

 

[A1vin]

Isn't ruthless more like merciless, or the opposite of merciful. If someone broke the law or transgressed against you, you could either be merciful and let it pass, or ruthless and punish them by any means possible.
In this case i would say it is more like just + wroth / cruel, but then again you probably wouldn't call someone ruthless just...
Maybe merciful, merciless, just and arbitrary could be 4 opposing traits.

Brave + wroth might be something more akin to reckless (reckless and cautious seems like decent opposites).


Personally I think they should be careful when adding any more traits to the game. It is already imbalanced, and for every trait they add the discrepancy grows. The solution might be to making "hybrids" that are neutral or mildly penalizing (to balance characters with many traits).

Craven + patient = cautious seems like a good idea, but maybe it should have some other attributes to balance the character.
Patient gives +2 in all stats but marshal, and craven gives -2 marshal. instead of giving 1 diplomacy, 2 intrigue and -1 martial. You could give 1 martial, subtract 1 intrigue.

Patient + Craven + Original Cautious: (+2 Diplomacy, -3 Martial, +1 Stewardship, +3 Intrigue, +1 Learning).
Patient + Craven + Balancing Cautious: (+1 Diplomacy, -1 Martial, +1 Stewardship, +0 Intrigue, +1 Learning).