Hussites.

[das]

I think that in begining, Bohemia should be Protestant, but no one else can become Protestant, also, it activites only Bohemian Protestant provincies. Hungary and Austria can offer it to convert back as a peace option. But if they won't, and Bohemia will stay Protestant, other nations will receive option to convert into Protestantism. This will also activite all Ptrotestant provincies. This will also mean that Seym will rule when actually Sygyzmund ruled.

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Huh? What?

You mean they should already be Protestant in 1419? That only Bohemia should go Protestant at the Reformation? Or how does this work? And does it have any justification in history? (I don't recall Luther being Bohemian, but I could easily be wrong - I don't really recall him being anything )

 

[BiB]

He's referring to the Hussite movement in Bohemia, I think

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Okay ... well my chief reference work just has one short paragraph on Hussites, so I don't have much to go on

Is their revolt significantly more important than any of the large number of others that came along before the printing press, or is it just that it lasted a bit longer? After all, without printing, even Luther's efforts would have been wasted since he could never have reached a wide audience.

 

[unmerged(5122)]

The Hussite revolt is a famous one, and produced a sizeable number of battles, with the rebels almost constantly winning. Plus, it should give colour to the game. So it has to be in!

 

[Derek Pullem]

Hussites

I got excited aboput the Hussites once the 1419 start date was announced. But on reflection it's going to be hard to incorporate them into the EU model. Were they a nation state - not really. Did they have a significantly different (i.e. separate) religion - not really. They did have a significant separate army and a recognised military leader. In the end the moderate Hussite faction settled for tolerance of their views and effectively a return to the status quo.

The nearest EU could come to this would be a rebel army led by a super general which breaks the nation in a civil war and becomes the new government. This would be a little disappointing to history buffs but I guess compromises must be made.

I definitely don't think you ought to charaterise Hussites as prodestants - it would screw the game mechanics up too much.

 

[Demetrios]

Heyesey, the Hussites managed to take over the entire kingdom of Bohemia, kept their rightful king from entering the country for decades, ruled the kingdom on their own for decades after his death under an elected Hussite king, successfully invaded their neighbors, and basically kept central Europe on the boil for the better part of a century. They successfully defied the Catholic church, and practiced their own form of Christianity in Bohemia from 1419 until the Counter-Reformation pretty much wiped them out.

By the way, the king they kept out for decades was Sigismund, King of Hungary and Holy Roman Emperor, which goes to show just how strong they actually were...

 

[unmerged(3627)]

"1436: Compact of Iglau ends Hussite Wars, Emperor Sigismund being acknowledged as King of Bohemia."
That according to a translation of Werner Stein's Kulturfahrplan The Hussite leader did later on become King, after Sigismund's death. Political links between himself and the rest of the world appear to have carried on much as per usual.

So other than throwing in 17 years of continuous revolts in Bohemia right at the start of the game, which makes pretty certain nobody would ever want to play them .... not all that important.

 

[unmerged(998)]

Yes This period indeed is one i'm looking to have modelled in EU2 (LOL my name should say it all!)

The period was as much as war against Sigismunds HRE armies ..several papal levies ("crusades") and a full blown religious civil war (between Ultraquists and Taborites and Catholics ).

Jan Hus, the intellectual leader of the movement was became martyr after a detah sentence wa simpose dby the church at teh conf. at Basel. (to which he was lured on the promise of compromise)

Hussitism is protestantism, but my no means homogenous nor identical with later protestant movements (of which there were many, Calvinists, Zwilians, Lutherans.) Among its modern versions include the Moravian Brethen (its North American name)which is focused moer on lay education and self-help rather than theosophy.

Of an additional note. Most hussite activity was in Bohemia proper regions such as Moravia and Silesia had quite stronger catholic presences and should not initially become protestant.

PARADOX: on side note can we possibly have some of the East Eropean provinces names changed (mostly Poland)
(examples there really is no "Galicia" in poland , and I have never really heard the south-east of bohemnia being called ERZ (Plzen maybe.. )

Z

 

[das]

Maybe, there still should be a special religion, called Hussism? And, if Bohemia will stay Hussite, all other nations will be able to become Hussite? Btw, Zhizhka, I think that you will be historicall leader . And don't forget that Paradox proclaimed that you may choose sides in Civil War! And give me my wagonburg!

 

[unmerged(998)]

Yep!... Form wagon square the Nemtsi are coming

I hope they give me some great ratings. Ha i can beat them with both my eyes closed.. hey I actually did !!

Z

 

[Besuchov]

Originally posted by das
And don't forget that Paradox proclaimed that you may choose sides in Civil War

They did? When, where?
I remeber a disscussion about it but not any official response. If someone could point me to the post where someone official said something I would be delighted.
I want details

 

[BiB]

Think it was a post in the scenario forum about a civil war in Japan and Patric said u'd be able to choose sides.

 

[Besuchov]

Originally posted by BiB
Think it was a post in the scenario forum about a civil war in Japan and Patric said u'd be able to choose sides.

Found it, cheers
Was'nt much though, will players be able to join any civil war or just the japanese one or just a few select ones that have special leader files defiend for each side?

Well I guess I will find that out when I get the game...

 

[Txini]

Originally posted by Besuchov


Found it, cheers
Was'nt much though, will players be able to join any civil war or just the japanese one or just a few select ones that have special leader files defiend for each side?

Well I guess I will find that out when I get the game...

All the civil wars that appear in the country you play, for example in England the War of Roses(York vs Lancaster)

 

[Besuchov]

Originally posted by Txini


All the civil wars that appear in the country you play, for example in England the War of Roses(York vs Lancaster)

In that case I misunderstood. I thought the reference was to intervene in other peoples civil wars, like was disscussed in the following thread.
Intervention to Civil War

 

[unmerged(998)]

Re Hussites

There seem to be a number of minor inconsistencies after re-reading the thread.
1) SIgismund (as noted by one person) never actually stopped being king.. he was
denied the recognition, but never (officially ) actually "supplanted." Running of the
country was more in the hands of ecclastical-noble assemblies (and the estates of teh Kingdom). In regiosn (such as Tabor) religious communes governed for while.

2) the civil war was ultimately won by the "moderates" (Ultraquists) but that did not end "hussitism", nor did even the counter reformation. Currently the Fratrobraske and other Hussite assemblie still exist in the Czech republic, Germany and north america

3) There were many Hussite leaders (such Jan Prokop and Jan Zizka were
outstanding military commanders) but any ultimate "leader" was transient (Hus himself
was more the "father" or theoretical head of the movent (sorta like Havel) but had no real power beyond the university and as a mouthpiece).

The reference to a hussite King is therefore not correct. This could be a confusion with Jiri (george) Podebrad who ruled Bohemia after sigismund's rule eneded (MY memory is fuzzy here but I believe the recognition of his rule wa sonly for his lifetime . not to mention that he was teh last of the Luxembourg line that had dibs on the throne.. ). Podebrad was important as he was considered the czech on the Lion throne. As correctly pointed out he vehemently defended Bohemias independence.

(for those that know Czech there is a very nice section on thsi in the Dejiny Koruny Ceske Vol I.
(LOL has the new edition reached 1440 yet??)
For english speakers there ar e(unfortunately) few good sources about bohemia (found under Czechoslovakia) Yet for those interested in the Religious angle there is a book about the Moravian Church in North AMerica.. )

feel free to post me note if you want more specific references.

Now if i could push the game back to 1340 and the empire of Charles IV......

 

[Derek Pullem]

Yeah but how?

Getting back to the game, how do we (i.e. Paradox) represent this in game terms that EU can recognise. I'm afraid that if Paradox give the Hussites the military advantage their tactics gave them then by 1450 with a human in charge half of central europe will belong to the Hussite "nation"

Did the Hussites ever show any inclination to export their revolt to neighbouring provinces or send out "missionaries" to spread the word?
Like most people on this thread I think it would be cool to plat the Hussites but don't want to break the game model to fit them in.