Humiliation tad useless isn´t it?

[Beagá]

Playing as Austria, I´ve jumped on Prussia early since for some odd reason they decided to help the Netherlands spank the belgians, which naturally drew the UK to defend. Creating a CB ASAP I´ve decided for humiliate (shouldn´t have done that but since it was cheap, I´ve used it). With France help we won a quick victory, didn´t press for more wargoals and Prussia was reduced to zero (yes 0 ) prestige. Wonderful so maybe they won´t be able to buy nothing and lag behind. Guess what happens with them?

10 years later, rank number 2 on industrial score and 9 on prestige. A crisis for freeing Poland ended up in white peace despite me and Russia backing France while only Ottomans backed Prussia (WTF?) So through the prestige I got for the war was neat, it was a tad pointless.

 

[rmax92]

Prussia is one of the most literate, advanced and most populous countries in the game.

They will recover eventually. Especcial after ten years which is quite a long time.

 

[InvisibleSandwi]

You can slow down their recovery by completely occupying their country until their industrial score goes down to 0 - since Prussia is literate and technologically advanced, they'll rebuild it fairly quickly, but if you're trying to keep them a secondary power for whatever reason, it should lengthen their humiliation. Of course, Prussia is one of those nations that has tons of prestige boosting events, so that's worth noting.

 

[Beagá]

Prussia is one of the most literate, advanced and most populous countries in the game.

They will recover eventually. Especcial after ten years which is quite a long time.

Yeah I know but c´mon... zero? And even then it had the same (if not better) industrial score if there was no war?

Guess I´ll save the infamy for other things. Unless I´m a small country who really needs prestige from the victory, but not as a means of weakening a country on the long term.

 

[grommile]

Yeah I know but c´mon... zero? And even then it had the same (if not better) industrial score if there was no war?

Ten years, as rmax92 said, is a long time. It's a tenth of the game.

Humiliate is useful as cherry-topping for the chocolate cake of territorial acquisition (especially if you were originally the defender in the war), or as a way to build your own Prestige, but it's usually not much help in and of itself.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Humiliate is a quite strong low-infamy CB that can seriously mess up any weaker GP and maybe even kick them out of the club.

In your situation it might not have been the strongest CB, but overall it is quite powerful if you want to wage a war without large territorial gains.

 

[delra]

If you really want to cripple Prussia, take Silesia from them.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

If you really want to cripple Prussia, take Silesia from them.

Yup, that is a huge pop loss and quite a big drain on their early game ressources.

 

[deadhand13]

And last I checked, Silesia is totally rightfully yours anyway!

 

[Orko80]

Humiliation is one of the CB's you can get quite easy for free on countrys you lower your relations with and have a border. So it's not that useless.

 

[Tumblew33d]

Yep, a free CB is a good CB. Besides, even if you can't keep them down, knocking Prussia out of the great powers is good.
They lose their spherelings and you get at least a year to add all of the north german minors to your sphere.

 

[1alexey]

Not every wargoal is usefull in every situation, and that is fine.

Prussia will be GP just by the virtue of nobody else outscoring their industial and military score.
The way to eal with it, is dismemberment, to weaken it past the 8th point.
That is harder for Austria, since you really do not want powerfull Italy, that may require hitting Prussia even harder, and also risking Bavaria as GP, but doable.

Humiliate though is very usefull. It allows to shut down prestige-bubbles GPs, which is a huge acet for countries that are not GPs but want that spot. Also, crisis cooldown depends on GPs rank, which means dropping multinational empire, say from 2 place to 8th, mean that GP will be much less stable, and will provide you with much more crisises to dismember the empire infamy-free.

Also, influence has an overall score modifier, so humiliating your major sphere contester will give you influence advantage. Also, prestige gives you better WM buying priority, so humiliation may be one of the ways to ensure your country get`s acces to deficit resources.

Overally, great, and pretty cheap CB.

 

[unmerged(457167)]

Yeah I know but c´mon... zero? And even then it had the same (if not better) industrial score if there was no war?

I think what happens is all the RGO workers are unemployed and a fair amount will go work in the factories once the war is over. I usually see Russia get a big industrial score boost after being occupied for long periods of time.

 

[Beagá]

Humiliation is one of the CB's you can get quite easy for free on countrys you lower your relations with and have a border. So it's not that useless.

Easy is subjective considering how random the game is. I´ve got humiliation CB, sure. On whom? Spain and Sokoto.

Actually I had crap luck this game 90% time, 3 flu pandemics before 1851 (have to admit I´ve reloaded on the third, was pissed with that BS) and no decent random CB. Had to weaken Prussia indirectly, they were allied with Netherlands , ottomans and swedes so... Place in the sun vs Netherlands (which was only allied with Prussia), spanking and Free people (Poland). 23 infamy and just got a jacobin revolution. Lovely. My only stroke of luck were some generals (one + attack, some good defensive ones)

BTW I think I´ll let the jacobins do the revolution to get some reforms.

 

[1alexey]

Easy is subjective considering how random the game is. I´ve got humiliation CB, sure. On whom? Spain and Sokoto.

Actually I had crap luck this game 90% time, 3 flu pandemics before 1851 (have to admit I´ve reloaded on the third, was pissed with that BS) and no decent random CB. Had to weaken Prussia indirectly, they were allied with Netherlands , ottomans and swedes so... Place in the sun vs Netherlands (which was only allied with Prussia), spanking and Free people (Poland). 23 infamy and just got a jacobin revolution. Lovely. My only stroke of luck were some generals (one + attack, some good defensive ones)

BTW I think I´ll let the jacobins do the revolution to get some reforms.

Actaully, it is more usefull to leave Prussia alone, while you get yourself into good shape, then after you get Nationalism and Imperialism,
get Alsase-Lorraine from France.

You can either take all Prussian sphere in one go with Hegemony CB, or let them form NGF, and knock it down do secondary power thrugh the release state CB. So you can get Germany formed yourself.

Knocking Prussia down from GP to then have to spend years upon years of influence to pick up all their spherelings is a bad strategy.

 

[Orko80]

Easy is subjective considering how random the game is. I´ve got humiliation CB, sure. On whom? Spain and Sokoto.

Sure it's random but you can influance it . It's slow game sure, but when you get your diplo techs up and only pick 1 or 2 big players you keep high in relations. It's not that hard to get most of the other countrys above positive 0-50 and desired targets in the -100.
Shifting the randomness in your favor. Also influencing them a bit while they are influenced by others for non GP's also generates negativ opinion event's and CB events.
Also influencing countries other GP's have invested in can generate these event's.

Influencing country's isn't only about getting them into your sphere .

Yea it's praying to the RNG god. But it is something while you wait for your Infamy to burn off or get into a good position to afford creating your own CB.

 

[Peter Kirby]

Humiliation is not just cheap; it's also one of the fastest things you can justify.

Recently in my Greece game I saw the Ottomans being dogpiled, and I wanted to annex Albania. It would have taken about 5 times longer to get the CB to acquire a state. Instead, I justified humiliation and then added the wargoal of taking Albania.

 

[Lord Finnish]

I think humiliation is a good CB not because it lowers enemy Prestige but it increases yours. It's useful if you are playing a minor and want to rake up prestige to get better trades at the market.
Humiliating all the little countries in Central America and Caribbean for example is a good way to raise prestige for an S-American minor.

 

[Tikinaattori]

Uhm, it's quite naive to think that one lost humiliation war would stop Prussia's industrialization, unless they are knocked out of Great Power status. Like others have said, their literacy is really high, and 10 years is a long time in the game, so it's no wonder that they attained high industry scores. And as prestige goes, 9th prestige after 10 years sounds ok to me for a Great Power, that lost humiliation war early on. Without that war, they'd probably had much stronger Netherlands as an ally, and would be chasing top spot in prestige, so I think you got really good return from such a low infamy cost casus belli.

 

[Beagá]

I think humiliation is a good CB not because it lowers enemy Prestige but it increases yours. It's useful if you are playing a minor and want to rake up prestige to get better trades at the market.
Humiliating all the little countries in Central America and Caribbean for example is a good way to raise prestige for an S-American minor.

Yeah it´s the only real use for the thing, won´t use it again as a GP unless I get it for free.

And no I´m not saying they should have indutrial score 10, just that it should be lower, while in fact it made no difference at all.