Humiliating rival - BudgetMonk

[GurenGaaze]

So, BudgetMonk have an exellent video on how to take even more advantage of the humiliating rival. But what I am wondering... is it still worth it outside of HRE? (is it even viable inside hre?) Let's say we play as ottoman (yes they get nerfed next patch, but I want to think of them in this patch as an example) and rather humiliate them rather than taking lands?

Or any other nation for that matter, Russian war with Poland? worth it? France against England? Castile against Aragon? (they also start with crap rulers so maybe more viable?)

What I am wondering, is there ANY reason as to do this kind of war? I never ever declare humiliate rival war and see it as 100% pointless and would rather take conquest/reconquest and take lands, strenghten my nation.

With a WC run, worth it? not worth it? when to use it? even use it?

Please give your opinions on how you would have rather used it if you would

 

[Dominion]

I stopped after 10 min. From what I've seen he only demonstrates that "show strength" exists.
So I guess you misinterpreted his intentions. He just wanted to display "look, x has a function. People don't use it at all.".
It's highly situational, but you should know about it nonetheless and many players (like you yourself admitted) don't think it has any value, which is incorrect.

Here's a neat example

Teutonic order was a rival, Pommerania was at war with them. I declared with the humiliate cb and sat on Memel.
Pommerania took 2 provinces, Memel got declared the capital, I showed strength and was done.

I don't want Memel because it'd give me a border with Poland.
I denied Pommerania a province.
I got 300 MP and PP without any casualties.

Long story short: Keep it in the back of your head and use it if appropriate. Almost exclusively used against small targets with barely any allies.
But don't think it's the base or absolutely necessary to get a WC done. It's just part of your repertoire and helps maximizing efficiency.

 

[afb]

Often, your rivals will ally each other, which means that you will have to fight more of them at once. You can then humiliate the one that isn't the war target and get land from the other.

 

[netherlink]

Often, your rivals will ally each other, which means that you will have to fight more of them at once. You can then humiliate the one that isn't the war target and get land from the other.

No.
You cannot take land from main target with humilating rival CB ^^

 

[afb]

No.
You cannot take land from main target with humilating rival CB ^^

But you can humiliate them without that specific CB.

 

[Dominion]

But you can humiliate them without that specific CB.

Doesn't get you MP.

 

[afb]

Doesn't get you MP.

No, that's true. Didn't think of that!

 

[moyang]

I just don't watch these kinds of video, where the uploader uses 10 minutes to say something that could written in 3~5 lines. Looks like Dominion saved time for me and other people here, so thanks!

 

[netherlink]

Also want to mention, that, unlike conquest / reconquest CB, humilate rival is always available, even without a common border.
Can be quiet useful in such cases, IMHO.

 

[Big Bad France]

Doesn't get you MP.

If you're under 50 PP before the war, it gives +1 per month of each unless you tick back below 50.

 

[Dominion]

If you're under 50 PP before the war, it gives +1 per month of each unless you tick back below 50.

We're talking about 300 MP coming from "show strength"

 

[earlofbrigand]

It's definitely good in the HRE. Take Brandenburg. They often rival you and so long as they haven't allied anyone major, you can declare war on December 12th and gain 300 MP a few months later. If they ally a OMP who is also a rival (say Magdeburg), then you can finish them off first, humiliate rival to tick the Ages box, and grab some cash in the bargain. You'll soon eclipse them anyway and get a new rival.

The problem is that the bigger you get, the more costly such a war becomes and you want to be grabbing their land and not waiting over a decade to be able to go to war with them again.

 

[DarthDanMan]

I found it really great as a big fish in a small pond. Playing as Butua (South African) I reduced my neighbours all down to one or two provinces and they all allied up and were rivalled to me. I showed strength on two of them and white peaced the third to allow me to do it all over again in five years instead of fifteen.

 

[GurenGaaze]

I just don't watch these kinds of video, where the uploader uses 10 minutes to say something that could written in 3~5 lines. Looks like Dominion saved time for me and other people here, so thanks!

Yeah, me too. I do watch them sometimes when I'm intrigued, but I suppose I could have explained in short what the video was really about. Making it alot less of a deal for you guys.

 

[GurenGaaze]

I stopped after 10 min. From what I've seen he only demonstrates that "show strength" exists.
So I guess you misinterpreted his intentions. He just wanted to display "look, x has a function. People don't use it at all.".
It's highly situational, but you should know about it nonetheless and many players (like you yourself admitted) don't think it has any value, which is incorrect.

Here's a neat example

Teutonic order was a rival, Pommerania was at war with them. I declared with the humiliate cb and sat on Memel.
Pommerania took 2 provinces, Memel got declared the capital, I showed strength and was done.

I don't want Memel because it'd give me a border with Poland.
I denied Pommerania a province.
I got 300 MP and PP without any casualties.

Long story short: Keep it in the back of your head and use it if appropriate. Almost exclusively used against small targets with barely any allies.
But don't think it's the base or absolutely necessary to get a WC done. It's just part of your repertoire and helps maximizing efficiency.

Yeah I suppose. that was indeed a neat example, and a good way of how to display when I could possibly use that CB and actually gain from it, as I always forget about it otherwise. Thanks for making it clear

 

[krieger11b]

The only time I really use it is in the begging of a Brandenburg campaign when you can still rival Anhalt, then you can get a nice early boost to either prestige or monarch points.

 

[Virupaksha]

Humiliate rival is a way of turning manpower into PP and thus (hopefully) monarch points without incurring AE. Often with a gold bonus too.

Situational yes, useless no.

 

[Virupaksha]

Good recent example.

Playing as France. Declared war on Brittany who call in my rival Burgundy. Occupy Brittany, occupy most of Burgundy. Separate peace Burgundy with humiliate rival for 30PP and 300 gold. Then vassalise Brittany.

Humiliate rival is the best peace deal with Burgundy in these circumstances. No available AE to take a single province from them.

 

[Dominion]

Humiliate rival is a way of turning manpower into PP and thus (hopefully) monarch points without incurring AE. Often with a gold bonus too.

Situational yes, useless no.

No gold bonus aside from looting. Show strength costs 100% WS. Maybe some stuff from allies, but if they actually have allies you wouldn't want to show strength anyways. Too much of an investment in most cases.

Good recent example.

Playing as France. Declared war on Brittany who call in my rival Burgundy. Occupy Brittany, occupy most of Burgundy. Separate peace Burgundy with humiliate rival for 30PP and 300 gold. Then vassalise Brittany.

Humiliate rival is the best peace deal with Burgundy in these circumstances. No available AE to take a single province from them.

You can not show strength without the humiliate rival CB. You used humiliate rival, which only gives PP and gold.
We are not talking about humiliate rival in this thread. The video is about show strength.

 

[Foefaller]

Humiliate rival is a way of turning manpower into PP and thus (hopefully) monarch points without incurring AE. Often with a gold bonus too.

Situational yes, useless no.

Again, the OP was about the Humiliate Rival Cassus Belli NOT the wargoal, which are two separate things.

The CB precludes any territory demands, and going for the special "Show Strength" demand for 300 MP and 30 PP is 100% warscore, meaning you don't even get money, (unless, IIRC, you did a separate peace with their allies)

It's a great way to get a leg up on MP early on (especially Brandenburg vs. Anault/Mandenburg or some of the weaker countries in Africa and India) when you can smash your rival's army in one go and occupy them before they can build more, but once you reach a certain size it becomes a waste of ducats and manpower.

Humiliate demand, on the other hand, is always useful IMO in any situation where you can proclaim total victory or close to it but can't take all the territory you can with the warscore (be it AE or coring issues or something else) the PP from it will usually be enough to get you the extra MP per month.