Humiliate CB Wars should have Suggest Demands tie to Humiliate terms

[Nuclear Elvis]

This is borderline "Bug" but I am putting into the Suggestions Thread for Paradox Dev's and Players to consider --

- Wars started with Humiliate Casus Belli do not automatically tie in the Humiliate CB and Make Peace war terms when the Suggest Demands button is clicked.

And this problem can exist when you have won the war at 100%, or at any threshold above the minimum 40% War Score required to claim a "Humiliate" option in the Make Peace demands.

The issue here is that the AI is not auto-selecting Humiliate from the far right tab options in the Make Peace window, and if the War Goal is met with >40% score, and all the point factoring metrics and conditions met for a Humiliate option to be chosen, the (Easy Button) click of the "Suggest Demands" button should always be making attempt to choose "Humiliate" because - that was the whole purpose of the war!!

I want the long-time EU4 players (veterans of EU4) to consider this:
- An EU4 player, especially a new-to-game player, may not even know that to settle a Humiliate CB War, that you (currently) have to manually choose the Humiliate option in that far right tab. This simply does not make sense, that a primary War Goal, once achieved, is not the highest-priority item for the AI to auto-select in the Suggest Demands click of the button.

 

[Hezekiah]

What about the occasion where you wish to "Show Superiority"?

 

[Nuclear Elvis]

What about the occasion where you wish to "Show Superiority"?

Could be same thing, different CB type, if that doesn't have an auto-tag for the "Suggest Demands" button to align the peace agreement in line with why the war was started in the first place. IDK though, as I don't make those type of wars often (so far) in the game.

 

[annulen]

I always thought "Suggest Demands" was a button for new players who won their first war and don't have an idea what to do with it. I've never used it myself actually

 

[AKLEONI]

I always thought "Suggest Demands" was a button for new players who won their first war and don't have an idea what to do with it. I've never used it myself actually

not only for new players, i used it a lot when peacing out a lot of minor countries in a war, which you only want money and war reps from

 

[annulen]

not only for new players, i used it a lot when peacing out a lot of minor countries in a war, which you only want money and war reps from

In such cases I prefer to take trade power as well (unless I know we don't have shared nodes). If your prestige is approaching 100 it also makes sense to do some mischief for 0 dip like break some treaties or rivalries. That said, I'm not opposed to making automatic suggestion more clever, but I personally feel easier when I select all peace options from scratch without having to check sensibility of "automatic" choices.

On the other hand, sometimes it's a good idea to accept peace offers from AI, minors usually send offers soon after you occupy them. In this case you don't need free diplomat and you don't wait for your diplomat to return which may be crucial for wars with distant countries.

 

[Nuclear Elvis]

The main point here is that this game "feature" of the "Suggest Demands" button is supposed to align the best possible deal for the player, and if the type of CB War is a Humiliate War, then the Humiliate peace terms should be the #1 priority as the points score crosses over 40, since it takes 40 or more war point score to earn a Humiliate victory. That means, the "Suggest Demands" would not select War Reparations, annulling treaties with 3rd party nations, or any other oddities that have nothing to do with achieving the "Humiliate" peace deal. This is especially important in first phase of the game when you get additional points for Age of Enlightenment by winning a Humiliate Rival war. New-to-game players, or a player not paying attention, could think they're getting that Humiliate victory because that's how they started the war, and yet the Humiliate option is left unchecked even if you get a War Score of 100, in some "Suggest Demand" peace deals.

Sometimes, a game's defaults and AI need to ensure some things are "stupid proof" - and this is one of those things, in EU4.

 

[annulen]

1. Humiliate peace term isn't always the best option. If war score is barely above 40, safer choice is to take money. Otherwise AI would have to analyze your economy and find out if it was destroyed by war, or things are actually running fine. But doing such analysis would mean AI is playing your game instead of you, which is not a good thing in my book.
2. We are talking about game that requires you to choose CB and particular war goal (while in many other games you just go out and crush your enemies). Is it so unexpected and surprising that you also need to choose peace terms as well, or at least check what terms did "Suggest Demands" actually select for you?

 

[Nuclear Elvis]

1. Humiliate peace term isn't always the best option.

If a player purposely starts a war based on the "Humiliate Rival" Casus Belli, please explain how that is not the goal. Your rationale is completely Subjective and assumption based that Ducats may have a top priority.

I think you're missing my point - this Suggestion is about Defaults, not subjective theory with randomness. And it's about setting up the "Suggest Demands" button and option for players to more confidently quick-end wars to an expected outcome. A player will see that Ducats may/may not be offered - for example, if War Score is only 41%, enabling the "Humiliate" peace deal as default, a player would see that the Ducats offered are probably zero (or near zero), and then can back out of the Default deal.

Again, Defaults, and Options - Players should be aligned to expected results (Humiliate) followed by secondary recommendations (Ducats, ending Alliances/deals with 3rd party nations, etc.). That's how normal video game logic-charts normally go, so this isn't Rocket Science here, it's simply a Suggestion to put the Suggest Demands on a correct logic path and Defaults.

And last, as a reminder, the game code has a glitch in that it doesn't offer "Humiliate" even when the War Score is up at 100! This shows it is in near-Bug territory, so this Suggestion is more than just the Defaults discussion, it is also pointing out to Paradox Dev's (if they pay attention and read this) that the Suggest Demands actually avoids selecting the "Humiliate" option in nearly all cases, even when it is obviously afforded in a 100 War Score total victory.

 

[annulen]

If a player purposely starts a war based on the "Humiliate Rival" Casus Belli, please explain how that is not the goal. Your rationale is completely Subjective and assumption based that Ducats may have a top priority.

Easily. You started war, it turned to be more expensive than you thought and put you into big debts. Now ducats are much more valuable than initial goal.

That's why I wrote that taking money is a safe choice. It may not be optimal choice but it's less likely to screw player up if taken inappropriately.

 

[annulen]

And last, as a reminder, the game code has a glitch in that it doesn't offer "Humiliate" even when the War Score is up at 100! This shows it is in near-Bug territory, so this Suggestion is more than just the Defaults discussion, it is also pointing out to Paradox Dev's (if they pay attention and read this) that the Suggest Demands actually avoids selecting the "Humiliate" option in nearly all cases, even when it is obviously afforded in a 100 War Score total victory.

It seems like a bug indeed.