Humans are xenophiles? Really?

[Hardcore_gamer]

I was watching the gameplay demonstration of the game and I noticed that the humans have the 2 fallowing traits:

-Fanatic individualist
-Xenophile

I mean I suppose FI can be SORT OF defended in that western society tends to be very individualistic, but this isn't true across the whole globe. I see this theme in lots of sci-fi, with the whole of the human race being presented as being basically just a global version of western style individualist democracy. But you do realize that the west doesn't actually represent all, or even most of the world right? What about China? What about Japan? What about lots of Middle-eastern and African nations? Are those fanatical individualists?

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that humans should be presented as collectivists instead, but I still think that labeling humans as fanatic individualists doesn't make any sense at all either.

But that's not the dumbest part. No, the dumbest part is the xenophile trait. I hate getting political here, but you do realize this game is coming out at the same time the European far-right is growing faster than since the 1930's right?

Humans have always been hostile towards everything they don't understand or know very well, so giving it the xenophile trait makes exactly zero sense. End of rant/

 

[Gott mit uns]

It's just a template of sorts, which you choose if you don't want to go through the whole process of creating your species.

You can also edit them or create humans completely from scratch, suiting them to whatever you may like.

 

[KonradKurze202]

That is just 1 preset empire. You can create a human empire and give them whatever Ethos you want (Traits are a separate thing).

This isn't a representation of all humans, it is an example empire. If you want to say that Chinese Communists took over you can go Materialist, Collectivist, Militarist or any combination you think makes sense.

 

[Kollatius]

Should be Xenophobic, Materialist and Militarist if you ask me...

 

[ParagonExile]

I wonder what the Commonwealth of Man is. They're the second group of humans in the race selection page.

 

[KonradKurze202]

Should be Xenophobic, Materialist and Militarist if you ask me...

It isn't the United States of SpaceMerica

 

[Surimi]

I think you're confusing "ethics" for "traits".

"Traits" are the inherent features of a species, like being long-lived or naturally good at science.

"Ethics" are the beliefs a pop happens to hold at the time.

There are, if I remember correctly, two "base" human societies depicted in the game. They have completely different ethics, which are simply the dominant ethics espoused by the state itself. One is clearly meant to represent the kind of "united nations" style one-world-government (a la Star Trek's federation or Mass Effect's Systems Alliance) which is grounded in principles of liberal democracy, while the other is presumably a more authoritarian and reactionary branch of the human race based on a different planet to earth. Both can have pops which disagree radically with the government and its ethical stance, it's simply the dominant ethical stance in that particular near-future society.

 

[KonradKurze202]

I wonder what the Commonwealth of Man is. They're the second group of humans in the race selection page.

Judging by the name I'd say something like Collectivist, Xenophobe, Pacifist. Just a guess though.

 

[Garfazz Steamfang]

I think those humans where created race no? Not a preselected race? If it is it's a bit odd yes. Humans are cancer, they destroy all they can't understand or find less evolve/civilized things,species, ethnies than them. So a truly xenophobic race. But for individualist it's make kind of sense. Have you seen ower occidental societes? People are wandering alone, insulting or despiting other people. Altruism, help and respect toward humans have been lost and is find more in orientals society (asian countries) coz of religion or doctrin (confucianism,buddhuism,shintoism) nether high capitalistic society make people focus on money and make them lobotomized sheeps which are wandering and loose all the respect they have for there kind and think only about themselves.
So, if 200 years in the future things haven't changed (i'm suprised to think that humanity have been able to survive 200 years more with that kind of society and lifestyle without wars) humanity may be fanatic individualist or individualist and xenophobe for sure. But the opposite can be true if humanity has wake up and changed radically his mind. In 200 years it can be a thing.

 

[Yenzen]

Who knows what human politics will be like 200 years from now? They could have picked almost anything, what they ended up with was probably inspired by an amalgamation fictional representations (The Systems Alliance, The United Federation of Planets, etc etc.)

 

[ParagonExile]

I think those humans where created race no? Not a preselected race? If it is it's a bit odd yes. Humans are cancer, they destroy all they can't understand or find less evolve/civilized things,species, ethnies than them. So a truly xenophobic race. But for individualist it's make kind of sense. Have you seen ower occidental societes? People are wandering alone, insulting or despiting other people. Altruism, help and respect toward humans have been lost and is find more in orientals society (asian countries) coz of religion or doctrin (confucianism,buddhuism,shintoism) nether high capitalistic society make people focus on money and make them lobotomized sheeps which are wandering and loose all the respect they have for there kind and think only about themselves.
So, if 200 years in the future things haven't changed (i'm suprised to think that humanity have been able to survive 200 years more with that kind of society and lifestyle without wars) humanity may be fanatic individualist or individualist and xenophobe for sure.

You know, humans can be pretty shitty, but I have confidence we can work beyond our historic limitations and better ourselves.

 

[drakeheath]

There are two preset human empires, from what we have seen.

The United Nations of Earth, your xenophile, individualist democracy, ala half the future human civilizations in sci-fi.

Then the Commonwealth of Man, which, from what I remember from videos and pictures, is a militaristic xenophobe military dictatorship, ala half the future human civilizations in sci-fi.

They basically have the positive Federation types who love diplomacy and democracy and the dystopian Galactic Empire types who hate aliens and love war.

It's not some political statement on human nature or the future of Earth, but two sci-fi tropes.

 

[Kollatius]

It isn't the United States of SpaceMerica

Xenophodic is true for most humans... as they fear change, fear difference...

 

[ashbery76]

Human's have to be neutral type races in these games so we can judge the Aliens from our frame of reference.

 

[Lamey]

As others have mentioned it's just one possible representation of how humans may be in a game. In fact they've mentioned that the pregens are only for player use and have no bearing on how AI species are generated.

In any given game the humans will have random ethics or may just be carbon shadows on the blasted remains of a post-nuclear earth. (A confirmed possibility from one of the Dev Diary screenshots) Maybe they might even appear as a fallen empire in some games? I would love to go out into the stars only to encounter the grand Imperium of Man.

 

[Fourthspartan56]

Ethos are not for the species, ethos are simply the ethics of a government. Pops can have different ethos and species have traits, so having a xenophile government is perfectly plausible.

 

[Kollatius]

Human's have to be neutral type races in these games so we can judge the Aliens from our frame of reference.

I wouldn't call humans "neutral"...

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

I'd argue that humans are very individualistic, even at our most collectivist, because we prize the value of each human life. Humans tend to dislike thinking along the lines of "the lives of individuals are meaningless compared to the benefit of the whole." It's why hive minds make such amazingly good sci-fi enemies.

We also tend to overemphasise the individualism within our own groups and play it down amongst others. Soviet propaganda, for example, depicted fascists (and later capitalists) a faceless horde, opposed by courageous individuals who believed in communism on a personal level. I would argue that the reason we do this is because we see being individual as being praiseworthy, and being anonymous and disposable as being evil and literally inhuman.

An example of a fanatic collectivist species might be the Many from System Shock 2. "What is the leaf against the forest? What is the drop of rain against the storm?"

 

[Surimi]

Incidentally, this whole Hobbesian notion of human race as "naturally" evil, barbaric, destructive or intolerant is absolutely not shared by most of the world. Indeed, you could argue that the uniquely Western view of human nature as inherently flawed is the whole reason why "individualism" (liberalism) and "xenophilia" (humanist tolerance) became important in the first place. Once you see humans as naturally evil, then it becomes the task of society to restrain them and make them better.

 

[EleventhAvenue]

United nations of Earth are supposed to represent typical Star-Trekky ''we got over our differences'' unified democratic civilization. I'm positively certain that any recent development in the european far-right movements have 0% to do with the civilization presets in this space 4X game.

You can make your humans fanatic xenophobe spiritualists if you want.