Religious for CB is very useful early on. Even if you don't plan on filling the entire idea group, you can just get rid of it later. You still save more diplo points with that CB than you ever would 'not' having it.
Humanist vs Religions
- Thread starter Kirasy
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Yea, getting rid of religious, which you only picked for the cb is a great boost to 1 pick strategies like that and nothing stops you from tolerating the heretics you are supposed to purge or doing a tolerant shia jihad run as Najd.
The best bonus for religions used to be better relation over time, which is moved to humanist...
Humanist is good for small empire with several culture. When you become to big you loose the cultural threshold bonus.
That rarely happens unless you are colonizing a lot of provinces which increases your primary culture ratio...or if you are culture converting some high base tax provinces.
The threshold to lose an accepted culture is 10% vs the 20% to gain one. Drops to 5%/10% with Humanism. Very unlikely you will lose one.
Hmm... what if... the said primary culture is a huge one, like, Russian?
I don't think people who choose humanism as Russia are looking for culture acceptance lol.
True, other ideas in Religious group are pretty much garbage. Esp. late game. And humanism appears to be usefull whole game. Though I've never took it.
Stability cost reduction by 25% is pretty substantial aswell, same goes for the missionary strength and extra missionary. Plus you get another added bonus vs heretics. I feel like humanism is slightly better in dealing with the reformation and playing a trading game tho religious is slightly better when expanding like crazy, simply because you can convert the new land faster and get it for fre
Disagree, that completly depends on what it is you're conquering. If you are constantly expanding into heathen or heretic land religious will help you convert all that land faster. there are 900 new provinces that potentially need converting.
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The Deus Vult CB used to be really good, because it locked the warleader - so it seems to me, that 1.8 nerfed Religious Idea quite badly for that, or am I missing something?
It will make help convert them faster, no doubt about it. OK, "garbage" is too strong word. Let's say that I would take Religious even if it only have CB in it. Hate claim-spam (too much clicking) and capitol immunity to claim fabrication. As for +1 missionary and prestige... Well, Rome and Judea are better investment of ADM. Missionary strength is vital however for Pagans.
Non-TF provinces don't get the -unrest, so any little thing that gives unrest will start getting them hot and bothered. You won't take a unity penalty, but it's not as good as TF.
For Songhai, you don't want either early on. Animist is easy to make Sunni (I'm scheduled to finish westernization in 1508 as Songhai, and almost every province in the region is Sunni including all that I own), and there's not a lot else that you'll be conquering in the near future. Songhai much prefers things like exploration and economic, and IMO religious is a late option to work into Europe but not a super crucial one as by then you can just blast rebellions like nothing.
In the last patch, I took humanist with poland and conquer most of asia. I think russia was the only accepted culture except polish at the end. It is a bit dumb for that the greatest bonus was not usefull at all.
Depends what you mean by 'small'. Most normal-sized European powers have no trouble keeping the bulk of their land accepted without Humanism. Humanism lets you push a lot further, and a Qing-sized or Ottoman-sized blob can still hold onto fairly minor cultures of about 10 BT.
You still have to pick one before the other, and weight the opportunity cost of going into ADM ideas 2 or DIP sooner. Taking both when you only need one...or at least when the marginal utility of the 2nd can't match alternatives...slows you down.
In other words, I find it hard to picture opening religious --> humanist or humanist --> religious will consistently outperform opening with only one of the two, and not necessarily first. As a result, weighting between them is still a crucial step in maximizing your gains.
Well, in the last patch you were better off having SE Asia and India under vassals as opposed to direct control, because those places are just a balkanized mess of 3-4 province cultures. After this patch, though, pretty much the whole of ROTW is balkanized cultures. Still you should be able to get the biggest ones like Han accepted.
Of course, you could just designate those whole regions as trade companies which do not suffer from the unaccepted culture penalty (could be wrong on this, someone should doublecheck). You lose a bit more tax and manpower but you gain an enormous amount of trade power, merchants, and naval force limits. Also would, in theory, reduce the revolt risk.
If you're going to get that big, get ready to stack Humanist with other bonuses, such as trading in silk (you should have that now anyway if you dominate Asia) and multilingual diplomats (requires Diplomatic ideas). There's a huge difference between -65% culture acceptance threshold and -85% (or even -95%).