Humanism Why?

[Zardnaar]

Asserting that army quality is the "most important thing, bar none" in this game is flat out wrong. Even in MP it's not entirely true (but it's certainly more important in MP), but that statement is a complete farce for SP, arguing from that premise is flawed from the start.

That Taungu game above involved a fight (several, actually) against Russia and Prussia combined. Both had superior discipline by 10% or more, Prussia had superior morale also. Here's what that "army quality" means in SP:



That superior "army quality" nation was riding -3 stab and got forced out inside 2 years, getting to enjoy internal conflicts. Russia got a dose of non-existence. Ikkiks mentioning -25% attrition resistance is quite relevant; that policy opens up some options that work much better and faster with them than without.

Like I said earlier in the thread, most nations prefer religious because deus vult opens at religious 1 while imperialism opens in the late 1600's. However, when you never have to convert anything, suddenly humanist starts looking pretty good, to the point where you can take 100% OE (in addition to feeding vassals), not raise autonomy, and have no unrest.

Beating up a tiny Russia and an OK sized Prussia in 1807 is not that hard. Neither is starting in places of the world where you have no effective resistance so once you get to a certain size you can mega blob like mad. You can take 10+ provinces per peace deal in games like that and in the far east there is no HRE or lucky nations to really stop you or slow you down. .

 

[hauptman]

Which is an overt logical fallacy from a player who only seems to be posting European starts with nations that need neither religious nor humanist, but could benefit from either. Not a very rigorous argument. But, since we're posting empires and whatnot as if it means something, here are a few that took humanist at some point:

I've played outside of europe many many times... it's just too darn easy out there. The HRE + ai bonuses + hard = a game I actually have to be careful on...

Everything is craptasticly low tax base, and easily converted. minus the occasional high tax china province.

 

[Tweakee]

Not 100% sure, will have to check when i get home: I think it was Influence 1st (AE was a killer still), Plutocracy 2nd (morale, unrest), Economics for some fun (helped a lot, i had Tirol and i built all Iron, Cloth Manufactories and even good number of Counting Houses), Humanism 4th - it wasn't late, i had like 5-6 Protestant provinces so it came just right in time, Quantity/Offensive after that.

In my Switzerlake run, I think I was similar: Influence, Plutocracy, Diplomacy, Humanist. I also had zero revolts despite conquering Iberia, the Ottos and Russia.

If anything Humanist can often feel like an easier difficulty level, since revolts become rare and autonomy drops at a fast pace, so you gain manpower, money and trade at a much higher rate for the same level of conquests.

 

[Apolojuice]

Guys, you can stop posting your dicks now. They are all very big and robust.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes, if you avoid China and India and conquer the steppes (with 2 of the 3 nations being European at that) then it's low tax lol. That Commonwealth vs Taungu isn't exactly showing a major advantage to non-humanist for blobbing though. If anything, we're seeing evidence that humanist is quite viable, aside from the issue of lacking deus vult from it.

 

[Zardnaar]

I thought I would go and try it out as a custom nation starting in Crirmea. Went humanist, trade, plutocratic and my 4th idea will be expansion.

Turns out humanist is quit good at plowing through huge chunks of central asia. Lack of diplomatic points is the biggest hassle but soon I will have expansionism and overseas expansion CB for that. Eventually I will it CHina and plow througyh that as well and using the wealth an MP I'll have another crack at Russia/Lithuania.



Probably even better ofr a non Christian. I guess if you are starting near INdia and China using that wealth to go west would make it very easy.

 

[wingzero890]

I dont understand what these screenshots are supposed to prove. You can blob with any idea group in the game and as any country in the game when playing the AI.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I dont understand what these screenshots are supposed to prove. You can blob with any idea group in the game and as any country in the game when playing the AI.

They don't, but it was worth showing a few with it just like without. It's true that for giant blob empires that you normally want one of humanist or religious though, otherwise unity is a real pain unless you constrain your expansion regionally or are a nation like Najd.