Human Hive

[pgt1027]

I noticed a lot of SMAC influence in this game (including the option to nerve staple pops now), and I was wondering.

Collectivism used to be firmly the "Human Hive" ethos, but since that's been gotten rid of and replaced with authoritarianism, I was wondering, if you still wanted some Chairman Yang in your game, would "Authoritarian" or "Hivemind" be closer to a "Human Hive" ethos? Something else?

For reference:

Thanks.

 

[Sibericus]

I'd say Authoritarian based on his quotes. They aren't as much about humanity being united, and more about human slavery on a level where the slaves are tailored to accept their roles.

 

[Slynx]

hiveminds lack happiness. so they are worse at representing collectivist society.

sheng-ji looks like authoritarian\spiritualist to me...

 

[eon47]

I noticed a lot of SMAC influence in this game (including the option to nerve staple pops now), and I was wondering.

Collectivism used to be firmly the "Human Hive" ethos, but since that's been gotten rid of and replaced with authoritarianism, I was wondering, if you still wanted some Chairman Yang in your game, would "Authoritarian" or "Hivemind" be closer to a "Human Hive" ethos? Something else?

For reference:

Thanks.

Chairman Yang definitely seems like someone who would appreciate mind control lasers.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Spoiler: Human Hive

Not really relevant to the topic. But still a delightfully horrifying bit of science fiction that portrayed an actual Human Hive.

 

[Slynx]

horrifying

horrifying?

definitely a good book to read about autocratic society.

 

[The Founder]

Collectivism used to be firmly the "Human Hive" ethos, but since that's been gotten rid of and replaced with authoritarianism, I was wondering, if you still wanted some Chairman Yang in your game, would "Authoritarian" or "Hivemind" be closer to a "Human Hive" ethos? Something else?

The hivemind is more like the Mindworms/Planetmind. Indeed I will be playing a Hivemind of Humans based on the Ascension path of SMAC.

Authoritarian fits quite well. Even "Drones" are not nerve-stapeled by default. They still have happiness. They still might produce unrest. And Nerve Stapling is considered a Atrocity (on purge level). And not a initial option either.

sheng-ji looks like authoritarian\spiritualist to me...

Spiritualist, but only in a odd interpreatation. Like him having a Stalin-like personality cult, that was simply non-compatible with any existing religion.

I made a guide on making "Imitation Empires". http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=689073779
I will have to think on SMAC for a while. Especially the SMACAX Factions. A lot mechanics that have similarities in SMAC and Stellaris now that 1.5 is around the corner.

 

[The Founder]

I took a look at the SMAC wiki. And Fanatic Authoritarian seems a surefire bet for me:
http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Human_Hive_(SMAC)
+ Growth and +1 Industry are well modelled by Chattel/Caste Slavery. The industry bonus is literally called "Brutal Serfdom". With Serf being one of the many Synomyms for Slavery.
The penalty to energy production (that also makes free market impossible to use) is also nicely done by slaves having penalties to energy production.

The Immunity to Negative Efficiency railroads it into "Police State" and "Planned Economics" approaches. Ones that would normally drop your energy income even more.

About Spiritualist: Not so sure about that. He had this book Series "Looking God in the Eye". And he was on poor relations with the likely Fundamentalist Believer Government. Also according to pathnotes Spiritualist no longer serves Ethics Convergence. It reduces unrest and thus how many armies you need/how poor your people can live.
I would put him more on the Materialist Axis.

 

[Culise]

I would argue Spiritualist based on his very strong focus on enlightenment and ascension in his quotes.

Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment.

I maintain nonetheless that yin-yang dualism can be overcome. With sufficient enlightenment we can give substance to any distinction: mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Remember, enlightenment is a function of willpower, not of physical strength.

His spiritualism is not the same as that of Miriam Godwinson or Cha Dawn, but it focuses on the concept of transcending the material world and the supremacy of the mind over matter. I'm thus not entirely certain he falls on the materialist side of the materialism/spiritualism axis.

 

[The Founder]

I would argue Spiritualist based on his very strong focus on enlightenment and ascension in his quotes.

"Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment."
For me that sounds more like: "Be happy with your low Living Standarts and you being enslaved - it serves the greater good/whole of humanity. In particular if it allows me to conquer them all."
On top of slavery (subsistence living standarts), Authoritarian can also pick poor living standarts for the other pops.

"I maintain nonetheless that yin-yang dualism can be overcome. With sufficient enlightenment we can give substance to any distinction: mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Remember, enlightenment is a function of willpower, not of physical strength."
With Asian wording you have to often look at contexts. A lot of the important words in important work are overladden with possible meanings, wich makes translations notoriously hard to make. Konfuzius term of "being Li" is notorious for that.
So wich text or wonder was that quote from?

 

[Zavaleta]

I wish the Hive Mind mechanic had the ability for empires to transform themselves into Hive Minds, rather than a hard break between non-hive and hive empires (species). Would make a it possible to replicate the SMAC Hive faction, which is aimed a becoming a synthetic hive mind.

 

[Druesling]

I wish the Hive Mind mechanic had the ability for empires to transform themselves into Hive Minds, rather than a hard break between non-hive and hive empires (species). Would make a it possible to replicate the SMAC Hive faction, which is aimed a becoming a synthetic hive mind.

Cant you do that? Cant you modify your pops to get the hivemind trait, and then switch to hivemind government? Didnt they talk about that in some starfish stream?

 

[nweismuller]

"I maintain nonetheless that yin-yang dualism can be overcome. With sufficient enlightenment we can give substance to any distinction: mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Remember, enlightenment is a function of willpower, not of physical strength."
With Asian wording you have to often look at contexts. A lot of the important words in important work are overladden with possible meanings, wich makes translations notoriously hard to make. Konfuzius term of "being Li" is notorious for that.
So wich text or wonder was that quote from?

Monopole Magnets technology- i.e., magnetic north without magnetic south.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

For me that sounds more like: "Be happy with your low Living Standarts and you being enslaved - it serves the greater good/whole of humanity. In particular if it allows me to conquer them all."

It does sound like that. But it sounds like that from a religious perspective.

On the other hand, looking at this from a meta perspective. If you make them a combination of collectivist/spiritualist, and presumably authoritarian/spiritualist, they'll end up with the Evangelizing Zealot personality type which is definitely not correct.

You know what, as someone whose put in many hours of Alpha Centuari I'm going to suggest Fanatic Authoritarian Xenophobe, both because of the diplomacy penalties and because Chairman Yang is the kind of guy who would work undesirables to death rather than simply expel them.

 

[ashbery76]

Amazing how SMAC is still the best sci f strategy game for theme and atmosphere after all these years.

 

[The Founder]

Cant you do that? Cant you modify your pops to get the hivemind trait, and then switch to hivemind government? Didnt they talk about that in some starfish stream?

Nope.
Normally hivemind pops can not exist outside of hivemind empires and vice versa. The proper genetic engineering (2nd ascesion path perk) allows you to add or remove that trait. To assimilate/de-assimilate species.

 

[Druesling]

Thats a bummer, then.

 

[Notho]

Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.


SMAC is probably my favorite game ever. I played the hell out of the 100 turn demo.

 

[pgt1027]

I think the SMAC factions would look like this:

Planetmind - Hivemind (Natural Neural Network/Pooled Knowledge civics)
Human Hive - Fanatic Authoritarian - Materialist (Police State/Efficient Bureaucracy/Functional Architecture civics)
Peacekeeping Forces - Fanatic Egalitarian - Xenophile (Beacon of Liberty/Meritocracy civics)
Gaia's Stepdaughters - Fanatic Xenophile - Pacifist (Environmentalist/Agrarian Idyll civics)
Morgan Industries - Egalitarian - Pacifist - Materialist (Corporate Dominion civic)
Lord's Believers - Fanatic Spiritualist - Militarist (Exalted Priesthood/Citizen Service civics)
University of Planet - Fanatic Materialist - Authoritarian (Technocracy civic)
Spartan Federation - Fanatic Militarist - Authoritarian (Warrior Culture/Nationalistic Zeal civics)

 

[Notho]

I think the SMAC factions would look like this:

Planetmind - Hivemind (Natural Neural Network/Pooled Knowledge civics)
Human Hive - Fanatic Authoritarian - Materialist (Police State/Efficient Bureaucracy/Functional Architecture civics)
Peacekeeping Forces - Fanatic Egalitarian - Xenophile (Beacon of Liberty/Meritocracy civics)
Gaia's Stepdaughters - Fanatic Xenophile - Pacifist (Environmentalist/Agrarian Idyll civics)
Morgan Industries - Egalitarian - Pacifist - Materialist (Corporate Dominion civic)
Lord's Believers - Fanatic Spiritualist - Militarist (Exalted Priesthood/Citizen Service civics)
University of Planet - Fanatic Materialist - Authoritarian (Technocracy civic)
Spartan Federation - Fanatic Militarist - Authoritarian (Warrior Culture/Nationalistic Zeal civics)

At some point, I'm making a game with all of these empires!