Huge tarifs make artisans rich?

[kolpo]

I have just got the game and am playing with China, the artisans were really the poor people of my nation, getting less needs then any of my poor pops. Many got no needs at all! So I decided to lower the taxes for the middle class to the minimum of 25%. But in order to keep my budget balanced had I to impose very high tariffs. A decade later are the artisans now the richest pop of my nation, 78% get's their luxury needs!

Maybe have my high tariffs shielded my artisans from any foreign(especially industrial) competition, allowing them to sell far more goods to my gigantic domestic market. Is that really what is going on?

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Yes, perhaps, but aren't your other people suffering?

 

[TheDarkside]

Interesting observation

How do huge tariffs affect home industry?

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Interesting observation

How do huge tariffs affect home industry?

I think he's an unciv so all he has are artisans.

 

[kolpo]

Yes, perhaps, but aren't your other people suffering?

Yes in a way am I sacrificing the wealth of the other pops in order to help the artisans. But I had to do something, leaving the majority of the artisans so poor would have only resulted in massive rebellion. The other pops also benefit form the greater stability this brings

Thought the real victim of my policies are foreign industrial producers.

 

[OHgamer]

might very well since the cost to consumers of all goods will rise, you are increasing profit margin potential for your national artisans with your protectionist policies. Provided the cost of their inputs are not rising as fast, or they don't need imports to make their goods, then voila your artisans will get a protected market

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Yes in a way am I sacrificing the wealth of the other pops in order to help the artisans. But I had to do something, leaving the majority of the artisans so poor would have only resulted in massive rebellion. The other pops also benefit form the greater stability this brings

Thought the real victim of my policies are foreign industrial producers.

What's funny is, as Japan my artisans would get poor unless I subsidized imports.

 

[ComradeOm]

How do huge tariffs affect home industry?

In theory huge tariffs should protect artisans by reducing the competition from cheap imports; so more of the internal demand will be met by these artisan producers. How exactly that carries over to the game I'm not sure yet

 

[dodobird18]

from what i understand the rule is that everyone buys from the internal market first no matter what

 

[ajm317]

I've never been able to get a firm answer on what exactly tariffs do.

Some people say things like "raising tariffs on foreign goods makes it easier for your national factories/artisans to compete on the domestic market." This certainly makes sense in the real world, but then you have people say "pops always buy from the internal market first."

Likewise I don't know whether or not, in game terms, tariffs affect the cost of domestically produced goods.

Take steel for example. Lets say your domestic producers make 10 steel and your country demands 15 steel. Let's further assume the cost of steel is usually 10 pounds, but you use tariffs to raise it to 15. Does this mean:

1. All steel in your country is purchased at 15 pounds. The government pockets the extra 5.

2. All steel in your country is purchased at 15 pounds. The government pockets the extra 5 on foreign steel (this is what I assume happens.)

3. All foreign steel in your country is sold at 15 pounds and the government pockets the extra 5. Domestic steel sells for 10.

If it's 1 raising tariffs should have a net negative effect on your artisans/factories. They get no extra money from their sales but they have to pay more for inputs and needs.

If it's 2 well then things make sense more or less, but raising tariffs increases the price of steel as an input to other factories, even for the 10 steel you are not importing. (This makes sense from a real world standpoint, but might be counter intuitive to some players.)

If it's 3 then again raising tariffs should have a net negative impact for the same reason as it did for 1.

I assume that 2 is what happens and that the effect of tariffs on the price of a good is decided by how much of that good is imported vs. produced domestically. So if your country is a net exporter of fruit then no matter what you do to tariffs the price of fruit will not change, but I don't know that for a fact.

 

[kolpo]

I've never been able to get a firm answer on what exactly tariffs do.

Some people say things like "raising tariffs on foreign goods makes it easier for your national factories/artisans to compete on the domestic market." This certainly makes sense in the real world, but then you have people say "pops always buy from the internal market first."

Likewise I don't know whether or not, in game terms, tariffs affect the cost of domestically produced goods.

Take steel for example. Lets say your domestic producers make 10 steel and your country demands 15 steel. Let's further assume the cost of steel is usually 10 pounds, but you use tariffs to raise it to 15. Does this mean:

1. All steel in your country is purchased at 15 pounds. The government pockets the extra 5.

2. All steel in your country is purchased at 15 pounds. The government pockets the extra 5 on foreign steel (this is what I assume happens.)

3. All foreign steel in your country is sold at 15 pounds and the government pockets the extra 5. Domestic steel sells for 10.

If it's 1 raising tariffs should have a net negative effect on your artisans/factories. They get no extra money from their sales but they have to pay more for inputs and needs.

If it's 2 well then things make sense more or less, but raising tariffs increases the price of steel as an input to other factories, even for the 10 steel you are not importing. (This makes sense from a real world standpoint, but might be counter intuitive to some players.)

If it's 3 then again raising tariffs should have a net negative impact for the same reason as it did for 1.

I assume that 2 is what happens and that the effect of tariffs on the price of a good is decided by how much of that good is imported vs. produced domestically. So if your country is a net exporter of fruit then no matter what you do to tariffs the price of fruit will not change, but I don't know that for a fact.

Yes I would also want to know what they exactly do, option 2 would explain why my artisan pops became suddenly rich. If that is the case could tariffs also help strugling industry.

 

[Snall]

In my Dai Nam game my Artisans def had the short end of the stick...until I invented Cement and then some other stuff- then they seemed to do a bit better. But frankly only 50-80k of them are doing very badly and that's too bad for them...they can become soldiers or clergy or bueraucrats if they need 'money' to 'live'.

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

might very well since the cost to consumers of all goods will rise, you are increasing profit margin potential for your national artisans with your protectionist policies. Provided the cost of their inputs are not rising as fast, or they don't need imports to make their goods, then voila your artisans will get a protected market

Well you don't really protect the market as your POPs always buy your products first. So tariffs only affects the nations trying to import into your country, as they sell less.

 

[Tormodius]

I've never been able to get a firm answer on what exactly tariffs do.

Some people say things like "raising tariffs on foreign goods makes it easier for your national factories/artisans to compete on the domestic market." This certainly makes sense in the real world, but then you have people say "pops always buy from the internal market first."

Likewise I don't know whether or not, in game terms, tariffs affect the cost of domestically produced goods.

Take steel for example. Lets say your domestic producers make 10 steel and your country demands 15 steel. Let's further assume the cost of steel is usually 10 pounds, but you use tariffs to raise it to 15. Does this mean:

1. All steel in your country is purchased at 15 pounds. The government pockets the extra 5.

2. All steel in your country is purchased at 15 pounds. The government pockets the extra 5 on foreign steel (this is what I assume happens.)

3. All foreign steel in your country is sold at 15 pounds and the government pockets the extra 5. Domestic steel sells for 10.

If it's 1 raising tariffs should have a net negative effect on your artisans/factories. They get no extra money from their sales but they have to pay more for inputs and needs.

If it's 2 well then things make sense more or less, but raising tariffs increases the price of steel as an input to other factories, even for the 10 steel you are not importing. (This makes sense from a real world standpoint, but might be counter intuitive to some players.)

If it's 3 then again raising tariffs should have a net negative impact for the same reason as it did for 1.

I assume that 2 is what happens and that the effect of tariffs on the price of a good is decided by how much of that good is imported vs. produced domestically. So if your country is a net exporter of fruit then no matter what you do to tariffs the price of fruit will not change, but I don't know that for a fact.

It seems that from what the tutorial says that you got it right on no.2
It says tariff has a dual effect. Brings extra £ to state budget, and protecting domestic market. Therefore I assume your no.2 option will make it cheaper for them to buy from domestic market than from world market, and they will try to buy what they need from domestic market first anyway, so i am not sure how, but they will probably save money doing this, and still use the WM because your country cannot supply them with everything.

Another interesting thing is about China. I havent yet played them but think that it might supply its POP with a great deal from its own nation, and maybe POPs dont need to buy as much from WM as with other countries thats dependant on importing lots of goods. So will your tariff income as China be kinda low even if you set % high?

(theoretically, if nobody in your country bought anything from the WM you would get no money from tariffs, yet i dont know what chinese POPs does)

 

[telesien]

I tried to fiddle with tarrifs as Japan, but with no effect here. Maybe it was because practically all my artisans needed to import something. I had better results with lowering the poor taxes to create big enough demand.