Huge Reinforcement bug? (1.2)

[konming]

Well, no one is sure that whether this is a bug or not.

Still, I must say, first, it has nothing to do with no attrition. Since all the divisions are staying in nice terrain with good infra, also it is still fall and not a bit of snow can be seen. None of them stays in occupied land either. In short, there is no attrition.

The core of the problem is that actual reinforcement MP requirement is MUCH higher than the suggested one. If you tally all the damage to all divisions, you will find the suggested MP cost is the right figure. Then why on earth it actually takes 2-3 times the actual MP to reinforce?

Also it has nothing to do with your reinforce IC allocation either. If you choose just 1 IC to reinforce, you still find that more MP than suggested are spent in reinforcement. (e.g. daily cost of 0.05 MP yet at the end of the day, total MP need only go down from 30.15 to 30.12, 0.02 MP is lost, for what?)

 

[Fawr]

The amount of MP used today isn't subtracted off the total amount of MP needed. This happens even in summer before the war starts. This means that the "Total reinforcments" required aren't acurate (you use 2-3 times as much).

I don't know why, but it could be a bug or it could just be the tooltips that are wrong? Its annoying though.

 

[unmerged(37475)]

I wasn't really paying too much attention to my manpower. But I had something on the order of 850-1000 when the SU declared war upon me in late May 1941. By November 4th my manpower was down to 0 and I was winning most of my battles. I was taking some losses in areas, but 850+ manpower down the drain in 5 months. It can't be true. I hope this is a bug.

 

[Rogue78]

...

anyone tried fiddlng with the:

# Reinforcement Manpower Cost Factor

in misc.txt as a hotfix similiar to setting the attrition severity modifier to 0.00 in 1.1 to fix the winterbug?

btw this is really hilarious

 

[unmerged(43241)]

has any one fiddled with:files

the text eddtor. in the 1936 eau. file. thxs.

 

[unmerged(17296)]

Well so far I have found the opposite to be true but I will keep an eye on it.

Actually there are a couple of adjustments in 1.2 that dratmatically increase manpower for Germany. So much so that in 1938, when I finally begin to produce ground units, I have 2000+ manpower in the pool which is several hundred more than I have had before (in 1.1.) I stopped a game I was playing that was in 1940 (after Poland, France and yes I took spain as well) where I had kept the reinforcement slider with 20 IC during winter as well (something I would never do in 1.1) and it didn't significantly drain my manpower. I mean I think I still had like 1600+ even after building 24 inf, 6 Mtn, 2 Cav, 4 arm and a lot of combat.

Anyway I'll start paying better attention.

 

[Von Thoma]

No I also noticed that MAYBE that what is written on the display is wrong.

It always says something like .... you need XXX Manpower to resupply ALL your units ... and there is the bug.

At weekend I played Russia with 1.2 and it was okay, because I always let this slider at 0 ... so till 1942 I had 3500 Manpower, as I have choosen all ministers which increase the manpower output.
So already had war with Germany since 1940 but it was only frontline war, as I built a defending line (Forts 4+) all along the border after the Ribbon Pakt.
Anyway that status told me I would need 950 Manpower to fill all losses. So after my first Counterattack, I decided in Summer to fill that losses, as I was still close to my own territory ... BUT ALREADY THAT TC Capacity was up to 2500/650 and there I think is the MULTIPLIER ... so I changed the slider to FULL replacement and wooooshhh all 3500 has gone after 4-5 days ... in my opinion the bug is, that this TC Capacity makes the error not to make it only slower but also that you have to pay for every surplus day.
WHAT IS STUPID, as they don't die when they are transported to the front (maybe some, when you have too much to transport)

So please PARADOX could you have a look in that ... as I couldn't prove it, as I am not able to turn out that overuse of the TC Capacity ... but it is how I think what is the reason, because as long as I was in the green (TC), it was okay.

THE ONLY THING I AM SURE IS THAT THIS BUG STILL IS THERE ...

(Maybe also that information is wrong of the amount you need to fill all Troops ?)

 

[Wijnand]

I can confirm something is wrong...

I had 150 manpower as the Netherlands and it said : You need 80 to reinforce your entire army, so i dumped all my IC on it because I just conquered Berlin and suddenly my meter dropped from 150 to 0 in 2 days . Something is wrong with the MP pool, and for me it was a crippeling blow because i wasnt able to build the 3 divisions of infantry i needed to keep on pushing forward and closing gaps.

Although in general the Manpower poor got nerfed for the netherlands in the patch which wasnt completly correct because the Dutch indies did deploy indonesian troops at some point but that isnt really bad, because overall the dutch have become much beter to play with with the 2 tech team additions and the more flexible MP pool manipulation.

Although i am kinda worried the reinforcement meter is screwy :S

 

[unmerged(39100)]

Same problem here with Romania - reinforced 9 divs (the most damaged of them lost some 20 str, so it was around 80 str left, the others 85 - 96 ) + 1 interceptor @ 90 str.
Needed some 20 IC, allocated ~40 IC. Reinforcement occured in the summer (june - still afraid of the bad attrition bug ), on friendly front (Beltsy & Chisinau), all inf techs regarding attrition and TC modifiers researched, enough TC available - ~50/150. Said I needed ~10 MP to reinforce, lost some +60 MP (10 new inf divs) .
Same thing in 1944, when I had some 20 divs in need of reinforcements, some +300 MP in the pool, needed some 40 MP, and lost all MP I had . . . funny thing, I still needed some 4 MP when it dried me out . . . still summer, but on occupied teritory.
Done some experimenting and it seems though that the drain is smaller when you allocate the exact amount of IC it needs to reinforce your army to full str. It`s even smaller when you set the IC slider less than required.
BUG, imho . . .

 

[Ozy]

Good lord, this is a real show-stopper if true. Hopefully Paradox will be able to get a quick-fix for this - or some of the modders can work out what setting in the files is causing the problem.

Can anyone confirm that the AI has this problem too - if true, this would rapidly drain all AI countries of available manpower.

 

[unmerged(39100)]

Can anyone confirm that the AI has this problem too - if true, this would rapidly drain all AI countries of available manpower.

Seems to but I am not certain . . . as soon as I encountered the problem in 1943 (allied with GER and at war with USSR) the ideea crossed my mind. But I didn` t check until `44, when the German attack ground to a halt near a defensive russian line stretching from Leningrad to the Sea of Azov (the provinces beyond Krivoi Rog).
There were no more divs being deployed to Berlin (seems that the GER AI puts the some newly constructed divs in the capital, and keeps them there untill it runs of out divs for the fornt, and only them it decides to send the 6-10 pz and mot divs to the front line). Also, canceled a lot of agreement it had with me, where I traded supplies for stuff, and started to give me free money )turns out all available IC were put in consumer goods ).
Note that GER lost only 5 divs so far (encircled befeore I took military control in `44), and now has some 130 divs total (+ around 15 airplanes, dunno how many were lost). Exited and loaded GER - 4 MP (1 MP/day) . . . loaded USSR - 8 MP (2 MP/day), around 190 divs.; UK - 3 MP (~ 0.90 mp/day), some +80 divs; USA - 7 MP (~1,2 MP/day), some +100 divs. and so on . . .
Funny thing both GER and USSR needed desperatly some 150 MP each to reinforce . . .
Haven`t played GER or any other major country for a long time, I stick to the minors, so I can`t tell for sure whether or not this is the result of divs building, or the bug , i.e run out of MP because used it all for building, or it went down the drain.
Also, GER waged war only with POL and FRA+BEL+HOL+LUX (all fell in 1 month), and since early 1940 did not get into any other land based combat.
Yet, as Romania I have some 80 divs in `44 (+12 planes and stuff) , all w. brigades and +300 MP (350 or somthing) that add up to a minimum of 30 inf divs (more divs if I build armoured and mec). All add up to 110 divs.Compare this with the number of the majors and keep in mind that USSR so far held the line and did not get encircled by the GER AI (same with UK and USA). I know this since I`m axis since 1939 and watched the AI actions of my allies closely (only the french lost divs big time). Also take in account the fact that I`m making a meager 0.36 MP/day (all techs researched, hawk all the way, +25% bonus from the right minister)

 

[Johan]

Can anyone confirm that the AI has this problem too - if true, this would rapidly drain all AI countries of available manpower.

Yes, they use the same formula. And yes the bug is confirmed and adressed.

 

[unmerged(19946)]

Johan

when you say the bug is addressed do you mean in 1.02 or in a future patch ?

 

[Permanganate]

when you say the bug is addressed do you mean in 1.02 or in a future patch ?

Er, it's in 1.2...he must mean that the latest beta version of HoI2 going around the Paradox offices fixes the problem, and it'll be in a future patch. Nice to know it's already been found and fixed, at least.

 

[unmerged(19946)]

Impact of this bug

I have just ran a few months of a minor (Switzerland) with one unit at strength 30 in v1.02. It took 42 days to get to stength 100. (all other units elimmed)

weather good
infra 100%

actual manpower cost 9.26 (should have been 7.0)
IC required fell by 0.066/day (seemed to work ok)
MP reqd tooltip 5.6 (should have been 7.0)
daily drain .22 (worked but should have been 0.167)

intersesting relationship - ic reqd is 0.5 of manpower reqd

The bottom line is that reinf model is working but costs seem to be about one third higher than they should be.

I am going to run it again in the winter.

 

[unmerged(11496)]

So, have you confirmed this yourself, then? This sounds like description of of the infamous Winter Attrition Bug from 1.1, but more than one poster has tested and asserted that this has been fixed in 1.2. Are you saying then that in fact this has not been fixed for 1.2?

Maybe the fix was to make it a summer attrition bug?

 

[Rogue78]

Yes, they use the same formula. And yes the bug is confirmed and adressed.

good to hear could you release a hotfix for this?

 

[unmerged(43103)]

MP reqd tooltip 5.6 (should have been 7.0)

At last the tool tip worked fine in this case because of this "# Reinforcement Manpower Cost Factor 0.8" can fount in the "misc.txt" file in the "db" folder.

 

[Wijnand]

thank you for the reply johan, guess i will just rebuild divisions and then throw them out manpower and netherlands dont add up too well >.<

 

[Risa]

Good to see Johan comfirmed the bug.

I don't have the code, but judging from my experiences, I guess the problem is at the newly introduced factional IC cost of reinforcement - there is nothing wrong about the tooltip, either daily cost or total remaining cost. The reinforce IC alocation module correctly assigns factional IC and to each understrength division, while divisional strength replenish module still use full reinforce IC cost to calculate effort put into reinforcement. So that division strength doesn't replenish at expected rate. In other words, the reinforce progress is slowed and many of your IC and precious manpower are just gone.

If that is the case, it will be a code bug and cannot be cured by text database modding.