HTTT and Westernizing Unit Types

[Setsuna]

Do we know how this is handled yet? I didn't see a way to change this in the list of triggers.

 

[Poach]

Did they not mention westernising now makes your units on par (stat wise) with western nations as well as having the same tech speed?

This should remove the unfair issue of playing Japan, having equal tech with France, yet having units totally unable to face off against a French unit 1v1 due to the massive stat difference.

 

[andb52]

My impression was that you don't necessarily need to westernize, provided you are the same tech level. As long as you are the same tech level, your troops will have parity.

 

[Setsuna]

Did they not mention westernising now makes your units on par (stat wise) with western nations as well as having the same tech speed?

This should remove the unfair issue of playing Japan, having equal tech with France, yet having units totally unable to face off against a French unit 1v1 due to the massive stat difference.

I don't think I understand the mechanics of how, though.

 

[Darkrenown]

No, there's a seperate chain of military westernisation decisions. If you have the demo look in the westernization decision file.

 

[unmerged(57247)]

My impression was that you don't necessarily need to westernize, provided you are the same tech level. As long as you are the same tech level, your troops will have parity.

it's seems that there have been a few changes in unit strength. Some units have been weakened. Here's one example;

NOW

# Ethiopian Guerrilla Warfare

unit_type = sub_saharan
type = infantry

maneuver = 1
offensive_morale = 3
defensive_morale = 7
offensive_fire = 3
defensive_fire = 4
offensive_shock = 2
defensive_shock = 4



THEN
# Ethiopian Guerrilla Warfare

unit_type = african
type = infantry

maneuver = 1
offensive_morale = 7
defensive_morale = 7
offensive_fire = 4
defensive_fire = 4
offensive_shock = 4
defensive_shock = 4

 

[andb52]

Oh god, they nerfed Ethiopian Guerilla Warfare troops? DAMN! My favorite soldiers are now little wussies.

 

[unmerged(57247)]

Oh god, they nerfed Ethiopian Guerilla Warfare troops? DAMN! My favorite soldiers are now little wussies.

pointless sarcasm aside, this does relate to the claim you previously made.

 

[Junuxx]

Ethiopia has actually been nerfed?

Edit: The nerf Ethiopia thread seems to be gone?

 

[Vladislav]

Why was it necessary to nerf some non-latin units?

 

[Wezqu]

Why was it necessary to nerf some non-latin units?

Because they balanced the difference between latin and non-latin troops. Those stats were in the old version to balance the later timeperiod units that were non-latin. Now that there is smaller difference in the new expansion they took away the bonuses that were there to remedy the situation before the expansion.

 

[King Nothing]

No, there's a seperate chain of military westernisation decisions. If you have the demo look in the westernization decision file.

Sort of... It's not a chain of events if you don't want to do it several times. It's possible to westernize the military from new world to western in one step.
And besides that it's also a bug in the code. It's way easier to westernize the military than it should be.
Here is the thread where that came up.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448337

 

[unmerged(169112)]

Someone want to correct or confirm my reading of the new westernization?

The way I read it is this: The requirements for improving your tech group haven't changed much. You still need high stability, high centralization and innovative, and high ADM. You still have to do it in steps. Now though, you only require a Latin neighbor for the final step. To move to Muslim you need a Muslim, Eastern, or Latin tech neighbor. For Eastern you need an Eastern or Latin tech neighbor.

The new military westernization has even harsher requirements, but can be done in one step. So a fully westernized Ming could go from Chinese units to Latin units in one go, if they had very high centralization and ADM.

So, did I miss anything?

 

[BritNavFan]

Why was it necessary to nerf some non-latin units?

They also changed the tech levels at which you get some of the units. (I didn't check exhaustively, just looked at a random African unit and found it was available at lower land tech than in IN.) So it's possible they made that unit available at a lower tech level and then nerfed it to balance it for that tech level.

 

[Darkrenown]

Sort of... It's not a chain of events if you don't want to do it several times. It's possible to westernize the military from new world to western in one step.
And besides that it's also a bug in the code. It's way easier to westernize the military than it should be.
Here is the thread where that came up.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448337

Well, yeah, but it's not meant to be bugged Also, I don't think you're meant to be able to jump right to westernised units either.

 

[Maldenic]

From http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448950 :

if you westernise, you have a long period of adapting your military to become western as well.. which is not entirely easy.

I take it from this that you have some period of troubles after military reforms occur, probably lower morale, tradition, tactics et cetera.

 

[ollobrains]

yes there is a period of choas or troubles following westernisation adaption.

 

[King Nothing]

Well, yeah, but it's not meant to be bugged Also, I don't think you're meant to be able to jump right to westernised units either.

Ohh.. You don't think it's meant to be bugged?

I thought about that as well but the code is very good looking in the one jump-aspect. Doesn't look like it's forgotten... And it would also be insanely hard to westernize the army if it had to be done in steps.. 13 slider moves if counting from the time you are ready for the first westernization which often means a lot of moves just to get to that point.. And then you need an ADM 6 leader for every tech westernization and an ADM 7 leader for every military westernization. On top of that 33 stab hits. That's insanely hard... I haven't done the math but my guess would be that it's impossible for a lot of nations..

 

[Setsuna]

effect = {
			unit_type = western
			stability = -6
			centralization_decentralization = 2
			add_country_modifier = {
				name = "action_and_reaction"
				duration = 1460
			}
			remove_country_modifier = "western_influences"

Okay, so it's an outright switch to a different unit type. Okey-dokey.

But how did they resolve the problem of doing this with AI nations (i.e., they wouldn't have a favorite unit type picked and would pick nothing)? And what was it, Mughal, they had a problem too I think.

 

[Darkrenown]

The AI now always upgrades to the newest type even if it doesn't have a historical unit defined.